Measuring Success

[Eamonn 61]

In another thread it was mentioned that Scouter's need a way of measuring success.

I don't know of any sure method of doing this. I do have some ideas and some opinions, but I will hold off until someone else "Jumps In."

To be fair, I don't think that there is any right or wrong answers, but I am sure that there are those who might feel that there are.

I have put this in the working with kids forum, as I'm thinking along unit lines.

A Council might see new buildings or work that has been completed at camp as being a measure of success, I was thinking more along how a unit, unit leader or committee might measure success?

Eamonn.

[dsteele 20]

Eamonn:

 

Here are some probably unexpected answers to your question. They're coming from an admittedly twisted mind, so please consider the source.

 

They certainly won't pass muster for a United Way concerned with "Outcomes Measurement" Pah! Which I won't go into in this thread . . .

 

When I was informed by the owner of a Ben Franklin craft store in Illinois that a Scout had tried to shoplift, the owner called the kid's Scoutmaster. She felt he had the most influence over the boy. Not his parents, not his coach . . . she called the Scoutmaster.

 

I count that a troop success.

 

When a Scout gives back cash to a clerk who hands him too much change, whether the Scout is 12 of 112, I count that a success.

 

When a Scout or former Scout goes out of his way to help someone, we have been successful.

 

When we find out that one of our co-workers is an Eagle Scout and we smile because that explains why he's such and exemplary individual . . . we have been successful.

 

Now let's look at the flip side. Here's when I feel we've failed as an organization.

 

When I hear, "I was never a Scout. No one ever asked me." or "There was no troop in town." Or "I tried it, but I didn't like it." or "I was a Cub Scout, but didn't like crafts so I never joined the troop."

 

When I hear that so-and-so is an Eagle Scout and I go "That guy?! No way!" This doesn't happen often, but it happened on one notable occasion. That one lessens all of us.

 

This Scouting stuff works. Measuring it isn't easy.

 

Unc.

[Bob White 20]

I really like Unc's explanaition.

 

Scouting is tough to measure and might sometimes not take hold told years later. Most of the signs of scouting results we will never see. They happen quitely and without attention.

 

When a boy makes the right decision when his peers are urging him to decide differently, scouting has succeeded. When someone helps an injured stranger because a quiet voice said to mim "help other people at all times." When a boy really sudies hard because his Den Leader taught him to do his best, Scouting happened in his life.

 

Most of the measurements of scouting are quite personal moments that shape our lives. No one saw it, but scouting happened.

 

When can you tell when it didn't. When a boy quits scouting because his troop meetings were boring, then he grows up and has boys of his own and nevr suggests scouting because he remembers it was boring.

 

When a boy works toward his advancement and is denied it because his leader din't feel he was old enough yet to appreciate what it meant. So the scout was disheartened and left. When he became a father he never had his son join scouting because he remembered how he had been treated.

 

The sad part is it wasn't scouting that did those things, it was leaders NOT following scouting.

 

 

 

 

[packsaddle 753]

Sorry, I responded to that question in the original thread before I stumbled onto this one. I'm not sure it needs to be repeated here. Or maybe its time to let that one whimper into oblivion...

[Eamonn 61]

I'm sorry Packsaddle old pal.

I don't understand what you mean? I didn't know and still don't know of what you mean by the original thread?

Yes I know I have a birthday this month and seem to spent more and More time looking for my glasses, my keys and other can't leave the house necessities. But I don't see or get what you are saying. Please help me out.

In both the threads that are running asking when it did or when it didn't work. Someone has asked for a way of measuring the success of the program.

I have asked how do you measure success? I hope I have worded it in such a way as to make it safe for everyone.

When we sit as a District Committee, we look at reports that can be interpreted as a unit needing help.A unit that shows no signs of advancement, or that is losing members, or isn't camping,all these might be seen as a unit that needs help. So on the other side of the coin a unit that is doing all these things might be seen as being successful?

A troop from a affluent area wearing uniform is successful. A troop from a poor area having all the Lads in uniform could be viewed as more successful.

When I look back at what I see my "Big Successes" I have a real mixed bag. There are a lot of things that I'm proud of. Sure I'm proud of helping a troop rise like a Phoenix from the dust. Sure I'm proud of, after years of doings what I thought was the right way finally seeing the error of my ways. You bet your bottom dollar I'm proud that kids that I went to court for, stuck with the program and turned out to be good kids and good adults.

I think my biggest success is that a lot of young people chose to spent some of their childhood with me and we shared a lot of meaningful good times. We had fun, shared adventures and along the way we all learned a lot of stuff. There of course was the "Book type" stuff the maps, the knots, the clouds, but there was other stuff like getting along with others, even though they might come from a different part of town or a different part of the world. There was seeing the shy little Lad come forward and lead something at a camp fire. There was the smiles on faces when they got it.

The "It" could be different for each Lad. It had to be. He was an individual. As far as I know none of the Scouts that I have worked with have rushed into burning buildings or have become what might be called hero's in that sense of the word.Some Lads had things that they had to overcome when they were Lads, I like to think that Scouts and Scouting helped them. There were Scouts who liked working with some of the other Adults in the troop, more than they liked working with me. That was fine there were other adults that made time for them.

I think that Scouts and Scouting played a small part in the lives of a lot of boys who joined the troop. We never seen what we were doing as saving anyone or changing the world, we just offered a program. We knew that we could never fill the void if there was one in the family that he came from. While a lot of what we did might be seen as educational, we never looked at what we were doing as educating. In fact we stressed that school, family and church had to come before Scouting.

I think that over the years there have been more little successes than anyone could count.

While some leaders will look at advancement, which is all well and good. I look at all the little goals that were reached to get too where the Boy is. The burnt pancakes, the granny knots. Advancement is a yardstick. I think it depends how you look at it.

I have been around long enough to see Lads that were in the troop, leave and marry and have kids of their own. I keep in contact with a lot of them. On Saturday I got a E-Mail from a Lad that had served as an SPL,he was over the moon that his son had just become a Patrol Leader, the E-mail went on about a hike that they had just done and he compared it with a hike he had done, with his patrol. We his Father and I had dropped them off in the middle of no where. Which was fine. But we the adults had to find a place to camp. We ended up in the parking lot of a pub. His Dad passed away about ten months ago. The overnight camp in a pub parking lot was one of his fondest memories about his involvement in Scouting. The Scouts on the hike had problems with a stove and mixed everything that should have been cooked in two pots into one. In true Scout fashion they said that "It really wasn't that bad."

I don't know of any real way of measuring success. We can set goals and reach them or fail to reach them. We all need to take time to assess where we are and where we are and where we are going. There are times when things beyond our control get in the way. When this happens the worst thing we can do it too beat ourselves up because of it.

Most of us are very forgiving souls, we rarely if ever give up on anyone. We try and understand that the Scout, Scouter, parent is doing their best. While this at times might not reach our standards, we do try and remind ourselves that this is their best and find paths to make whatever the task at hand is work.

Then again the measure of success might not be what we have done, maybe it lies in what we are going to do. If we dwell in the past all we have will be a past. The future of a unit lies with the little fellows who have just joined and what we can do to serve them.

Eamonn

[packsaddle 753]

Eamonn,

Oops, I guess I was a little cryptic. In the thread, "When did it not work?", the question of measurement of success came up. That was the 'original thread' of which I wrote.

I've been on travel so I didn't notice all the 'stuff' that hit that thread until recently. But I noticed the question about success and responded a little late, questioning Bob White's answer to it. Bob responded and since that time there has been some more of the usual give and take.

 

When I was a boy, scouting and my troop were the world. In retrospect, I know that the troop and the district were well-run and 'with-the-program'. We moved to this area and the troop had real problems. My son responded predictably, bored, less interested, etc. He made it to eagle years ago with some parental encouragement. The troop and the district were in bad shape, partly because they were not 'with-the-program'. Also partly because of some local issues with the CO and the community, that's another story.

 

My main complaint is not aimed at you because I realize you are not the problem. My main complaint is merely a statement of frustration on behalf of the boys. It is and always has been that there is less chance of the troop getting it right if the district or the council provides neither the incentive (encouragement) nor the knowledge (training, perhaps). I have beat my head against this 'wall' for years. I think it is facile to speak the words about following the program with the expectation that those words alone are enough to solve problems for a unit that has never followed "the program". It also requires some help from the higher layers of the organization (not to mention some help from the community, but that's unrelated to the program). In that sense, a "measure" may provide little more than a confirmation of a unit's failure...when what they really need is the knowledge, incentives, and resources to succeed.

 

Happy birthday though. I do sympathize about the glasses, keys, hat, wallet, belt, shirt tail, zipped fly, passport, plane ticket, travel orders...wait a minute - that's MY list!(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Eamonn 61]

Packsaddle,

Thanks for the explanation and the sympathy.

Some little time back, if my memory isn't that far gone Fuzzy Bear and myself did discuss at great length what role/part the Council or the District plays in the Troop program. I think we just about wore that topic out.

You know what success looks like. From what you say you seen it in action when you were a Scout. Making it happen again? That is always a lot harder than we think it is going to be. Or no matter what we seem to do we never seem to get it just like it was.

I know that there will never be another 17 Fulham (Pioneers) I for one would never now be able to commit the time and energy that I put in then.

Young Packsaddle, did make it to become an Eagle Scout, so something must have worked. It is very frustrating when the people who are charged to do things either don't do them or do a very poor job. But having been on the Council and the District side of the fence, please believe me when I say we get as upset and as discouraged as anybody when we see the units screwing it all up. We do make mistakes. I remember asking a guy who does know a lot about Scouting to get involved with the training team. He got up to present a session at Scoutmaster Specific and went on for 20 minutes talking about his hat!! Needless to say I never asked him again. Sad to say there are 30 or more Scoutmasters and Assistant Scoutmasters who will forget all the good stuff that was presented but you bet they will remember this guy and his darn hat!! I never did like hats to start with. I have had Commissioners that were not the greatest, one guy was so bad I nicknamed him pockets because he was about as useful as pockets in your underwear!! Lucky enough he was with a unit that didn't need a lot of help and they took him under their wing and made a fuss of him. He sits at all of their functions has a good feed, they make a big deal of introducing him and he makes a big deal of presenting the charter every year. At the moment and for the last few years it has worked out well. What happens when there is a problem is yet to be seen.

I was talking on the phone to a friend of mine over the weekend I said that there is a Council near us that has had the same old little club presenting the Wood Badge Course for ever. These guys are happy to wear their red jackets and campaign hats and dole out the course. Their 21st Century Course hasn't changed much since the mid 1960's. I would love to go and give them a good kick in the pants.

Yes I do see and do share your frustrations.

Eamonn.