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SctDad

New Scout Patrol Programs

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Well I certainly wouldn't use the linked program exactly as it stands.

 

but I might provide some tidbits from it to a new troop guide who doesn't have a clue how to get started. Hey, check out the forming a patrol page for ideas, remember flag, cheer, elect your patrol leader(or apl if the new scout patrol comes with an older pl).

and then after that we have a hike coming up, maybe look at the hiking stuff in the trail to first class, and here's some stuff from the troop program features on hiking, maybe some stuff from that document linked about hiking.

 

Not so much to overwhelm him, but a bit of a nudge. Once he gets his shoes wet and has a feel for the best way to help his patrol move along, he would probably get to the point he doesn't need much of any document outside of the scout book.

 

While a troop guide should be up and raring to go help out the new scouts, sometimes they are totally overwhelmed by the idea of what to do first.

 

 

If you are in a troop with issues with patrol method and the only teaching, learning, performing and outings are done in a unit at the troop level the boy may not have any ideas outside of that box when the boys in the troop stage a coup and try to take back control of things and use patrol methods and such.

 

So a troop guide and patrol leader trying to do trail to first class for the first time at the patrol level, may not really understand where to start to do this stuff themselves rather than relying on the troop to teach them everything and provide everything. If they are used to a patrol leader as the guy who lines them up for flags, but there is not much else they can do, it often does take a well meaning adult (or document) to point them into a different direction--that a patrol can do all these things themselves at the troop level.

 

My 15 year old life scout found the document and thought the way it suggested using Edge in more concrete ways may be a help to get the boys practically using edge a little bit more. and that all the items do need to be accomplished unless you are sending home all the T21 stuff to do at home with your mommy.

 

But he certainly wouldn't follow the linked document word for word, step by step.

 

But then again, even in our often too much adult led troop, and too much everything at the whole troop level, the boys never do anything an adult may spell out for them exactly as the adult wants them to[which is encouraging to me, but annoying to many others], so I do not see this document as tying their hands, the boys still would take it apart and use only the parts they wanted to use and felt could be helpful.

 

Scout spirit shining thru and all that....

 

 

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5 year

 

"The patrol leader could take the guidelines apart and only use what they want."

 

But that is the whole point of whats wrong with your little lesson plan, the TG's or PL's hands are tied or limited, they are not allowed to use their own leadership and planning skills or methodology. In other words this is still an ADULT LED/CONTROLLED troop. Your patrol leaders are NOT really leading just following an adult created lesson plan model. That is not anywhere close to being a boy led patrol method and IMO not truly following the scouting model set up by BP and Hillcourt. Of course you and the other adults love your little handbook as it is an adult controlled program which holds little value to boys wanting to learn leadership. This is NOT what scouting is supposed to be all about.

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Just to clarify ... NSP has been used multiple ways in this discussion.

 

- I fully believe in NSP (new scout PATROLS) in that scouts join at the same time are probably friends and are at the same level looking to have similar experiences and activities. To me that's a patrol, a set of friends working together to do things. The PL is a member of that patrol and learning leadership by helping his friends try to achieve their objectives. As the new scout patrol learns things, they naturally become just a normal patrol.

 

- I do NOT believe in troop NSP (new scout PROGRAMS) that are formal documented ISO 9001 procedures. Maybe new scout programs run by summer camp staff, but even those I don't particularly like. Every patrol has things they can learn or do better. A new scout patrol just has alot of things that they need mentoring on. As such, the troop guide and/or an ASM pays special attention to them providing guideance and training as needed.

 

I do wish the TERM "new scout patrol" would go away. They are just a patrol that needs a bit more guidance and experience. The troop guide (and SM/ASMs) should be there to help anyone who needs training or help. And the guide would know that a new set of scouts would need a bit more help.

 

...

...

 

Multiple people in this discussion have helped me learn how to state what I've always thought but could never state cleanly. Troops with large documents, many procedures and many forms are boxing in the scouts and telling them exactly how to do it. It's just a way to hide an adult run troop. It's not teaching leadership. It's teaching process compliance. And, it's doing scouting how adults want to do scouting, not how scouts want to do scouting.(This message has been edited by fred8033)

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Ok I admit in advance that A) I am an old fogey and B) I have primarily had bad experiences with NSPs.

 

With that said, the document that was linked to, while very organized and gets to the point, is really not what Scouting is about. I believe that BP stated "Advancement is like a suntan - something you get naturally whilst having fun in the outdoors."

 

If you do use a NSP, then your TG and PL should work together to see how advancment can be worked on using the troop's schedule.

 

I know folks will wonder what't the difference between this handout and the Troop Prgram Features v1-3? Biggest difference is that while the TPF does give you a lesson plan, it's done on a specific topic and not a regimented year's schedule. TPF allows the PLC to pick out what to do, and is themed based, i.e. camping, canoeing, etc, with a campout as the main event.

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A little history here: National back in the 80s decided they wanted to increase the number of Eagles from I think was around 2% of all scouts. The way they chose to do that was the attacking the areas of the program where they lost a lot of scouts, which is the first year Troop Scouts. Even today, more scouts leave the BSA in their first year of the troop program than any other year. I think it has always been that way. But National created the New Scout program with the idea of bringing Webelos in with their friends and then assigning an older scout to help them get used to the troop program hopeing that it would make the first few months in a troop more friendly and easier to adapt.

 

National also had some data the showed them that scouts who made it to the Frist Class rank in their first year typically hung around for several more years. As a result, you are looking at todays New Scout Patrols (NSP) and First Class in the First Year program.

 

Has it worked? Well a few years ago when I compared numbers, they were about the same as around 1990. But, that is the program in the SM Handbook right now as well as the SPL Handbook and that is why so many Troops use the NSP program.

 

Barry

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HEY REMEMBER ME

 

The plan that we are developing is for the Troop Guide (A Youth member/POR) to use as guidelines as to what needed to be covered.

 

It was not a lesson plan.

 

It was a list of the requirements that were out there and a suggestion on how to do them. It was not broken down into weeks, but monthly suggestions as to what should be covered.

 

AT NO TIME DID I SAY AN ADULT WOULD BE RUNNING THE PROGRAM?PATROL.

 

There would be an ASM assigned as a mentor and advisor for the TG. This would help to lift the burden off of the SM who has other things to do.

 

We are trying to get the NSP going and trying to keep boys in the program. We are just trying to make sure that they have all the resources that is needed for this task.

 

Thank you to those that have actually given me some advice. It will be helpful.

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Barry

 

As far as the history is concerned in order to get more Eagles National also changed, eliminated some, and simplified the requirements for Eagle. The result is they may have more Eagles, but the quality of many of them is sorely lacking. It really had nothing to do with the NSP program which has done little in improving the retention of first year scouts.

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Sctdad

 

If you are really serious about retention of your new boys throw that whole lesson plan booklet out, forget about the NSP, and put your new boys into established patrols where the patrol members can all act like a guide, learn leadership, and at the same time integrate the newbies into the mainstream troop faster and more efficently. The new boys will stay longer because they are not segregated but will really feel part of the troop. Or you can do it your way and wonder six months later where all your new boys have gone and why.

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That may or may not be true (probably is), but I was just giving a history lesson to the this subject of NSPs. The First Class in the First Year program itself change the BSA vision of a values program to a more advancement program. I don't know if the folks at National had that in mind, but it is the result.

 

Barry

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'Dad,

 

I would say put the OUTING in ScOUTING with your troop, but knowing ya as I do, I'm preaching to the choir. :)

 

Does your troop have a copy of the Troop Program Features, Vols 1-3? It used to be a single book called WOODS WISDOM. The way the books are designed, your PLC pick what each month's theme would be. Within each theme there are suggested troop plans, and the lesson.

 

For example in the AQUATICS theme, duing the skills instruction of Week 1 would have the New Scouts can begin working on strokes that are needed for Second and First Class ranks. The Experienced Scouts can work on the Lifesaving or Swimming merit badges. And the Older Scouts can work on the Venture program or on Snorkeling, BSA; BSA Lifeguard; Mile Swim, BSA; or assist

with the instruction of less experienced Scouts.

 

 

Another example is the COOKING theme's skill instruction for the first week:

 

New Scouts work on woods tools care and maintenance(Boy Scout

Handbook). Review Leave No Trace rules for fires.

Experienced Scouts work on Dutch oven cooking.

Older Scouts work on the Venture program or work with

younger Scouts on woods tools instruction

 

So the TPFs allows the entire troop to work on one specifc theme, culminating with a campout based upon the theme, BUT allows the different ability groups to work separately during the skills period of the meeting.

 

All 3 books are downloadable from here:

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/Resources/Troop%20Program%20Features%20Vol,-d-,%20I%20-%20III.aspx

 

Hope this helps.

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Barry

 

You are so right, nowadays in most troops it is all about the BADGES, not the values, or the outdoor experience, and sadly not even about the fun of scouting.

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If one doesn't think the badges are important to the boys, have all your POR's prove they can do the task before giving the badge. Even if they aren't qualified, the dedicated leader will at least make the effort. For the most part, unless one dangles a patch in front of them, they won't budge, and for some, even after giving them patch they still won't budge.

 

Stosh

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Stosh

 

That's the point isn't it we have conditioned our boys to the idea that a rank patch is the ONLY priority in scouting, and to get your Eagle by age 13. I disagree with you about a rank patch being the only motivation for a boy, if the activity is fun, outdoor oriented, and challenging they will be eager to give it a try. If your program is sitting down at a troop meeting, opening a book and reading about something then yes you will need more than a badge to get them motivated. Many troops today do too much sitting and not enough getting out and doing which leads to boring meetings and higher drop out rates.

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