Train Them, Trust Them, Let Them Lead.

[Eamonn 61]

I have to admit to wishing that the phrase "Boy Led Troop' wasn't used as much. This doesn't mean that I'm in any way against the Patrol Method or not in favor of the PLC being the driving force that makes things happen.

Troop Elections are strange animals. I have stood and seen the Lad that I (Yes me, myself) didn't want to be elected,voted in and do a fantastic job, while the Lad I would have bet my last penny on has turned out to be not so hot.

I have never ever asked a PL or an SPL to stand down. I have had Scouts that were elected ask if they could. This was normally because some unexpected activity like a school play came along and the Lad got selected. Trying to do everything just wasn't working for him.

I have a very vivid imagination! At times when I read these forums I see the Great Scoutmaster sitting with a group of Scouts telling them that the Troop is now a Boy Run, Boy Led Troop. The Scouts look like something from a Rockwell painting and they all have a look that is very similar to that of Deer caught in the headlights of a car.

Every job that I have ever had I have needed to know that there was people behind me to train and support me. Even working for myself, I used a lot of people. I used my accountants, my bankers, menu designers, other people who were in the same line of business and I used Her Who Must Be Obeyed, to bounce ideas off and at times to tell me that I was being an idiot. I held meetings with the people who worked for me to get their input and ideas. Sure I was the Boss, I was paying nearly all of these people. I trusted them and they trusted me and I had the final word.

In Scouting I seen the members of the PLC as a management team. As Scoutmaster I used leadership skills and did everything that I could to pass on the skills to the SPL and the PL's. Unlike learning how to tie a knot, these skills are not something that once you learn one you can sign off and move to the next. Some Lads were really good at some of the skills and not so hot with others.

The skills we stressed were:

1.Communicating: Receiving and giving information.

2. Knowing and Using Resources:Knowing what a resource is, where to look for one and how to use it.

3. Understanding the Characteristics and Needs of the Group and Its Members:Knowing the people that you are leading, what are their strengths and weaknesses, knowing what help they will need and understanding that each member of the patrol is an individual with his own wants and needs.

4. Planning: Showing why planning is so very important, how to go about making a plan and using it once you have it written down.

5. Controlling Group Performance: Showing how to get the Patrol to get the job done, using different styles of leadership.

6. Effective Teaching: Some people call this Management of learning. It is all about finding out what needs to be taught (Guided Discovery) and looking for effective ways of teaching it.

7. Representing the Group: Members of the PLC are there to represent the group that they lead. To be successful at this they need to know what the group wants. They need to look at how this comes about. They also need to know and understand that just because the group that they represent want something doesn't mean that it will be what they want and at times the Patrol Leader may have to go back to the Patrol and sell them on what is!

8. Evaluating : I really like and enjoy Reflections and used them a lot, at camp-outs and after meetings and at the PLC. Patrol Leaders need to meet with their Patrols and as a group look at what worked and what didn't and look for the reasons why it worked and why maybe it didn't

9. Sharing Leadership: I have had Patrol leaders that have not been good at delegating or sharing leadership, either because they weren't good at using these skills and they ended up doing everything or because they didn't trust the other patrol members to get things done.

10. Counseling:Looking for ways to work with each individual member of the group in order to show him or at times advise him in different areas.

11. Setting the Example: While this seems like a given, it is important that members of the PLC know and understand that they are the leaders and that they set the tone.

 

This is a list of the skills of leadership that we have used in Scouting for a very long time. It is a list of skills that I have been trying to perfect for almost 30 years!! It is not that I'm a slow learner, it's like the Scout Oath and Law a work that is always in progress.

As a Scoutmaster I seen Lads who were PL's and were outstanding at just about all the points, but maybe were not so hot at communicating or maybe planning. When I seen or better yet when we both seen a soft spot we would work on that.

We used reflections to see how we were doing, and to look for improvements.

We used the PLC meeting as a place to learn, not just jot down ideas. The Agenda for the meeting was not something to be taken lightly, while the SPL crafted it, he did so with the help and support of the SM.

While I like to think that I was close to all of the Scouts, I was very close to the Lads who served on the PLC. I know that I counted on them being friends and friendly with me as a way of getting the job done.

I trusted them to do a good job. This doesn't mean that I one day said "OK Lads, your all trained" and then cut them loose. I was always around to help and support them. Even when they went off on a Patrol camp-out, I checked the plans they had made went over lists and menus and at times sat down with the PL and talked about problems that might come up.

The weekly Troop meeting was the place they practiced these skills, the adult leaders and myself were happy to allow the SPL to follow the meeting plan. We let him hone his skills and the skills of the Patrol leaders at the Troop meetings, but it was at camp where the skills of the SPL and the PL's really got put to use. Because there was so much and so many things that needed to be taken care of, some of them things that were not a lot of fun, this was where real leadership was needed. This was where the adult leaders had to allow the SPL and the PL's to do their job and lead their Patrols.

Sure there were times when I wanted to jump in and sort things out!! But this wouldn't teach anyone anything. Sure there were times when a PL or SPL came to me complaining. The complaint I think I heard most often was "They aren't listening" Again the temptation to jump in and give the Troop or the Patrol a good talking too was great, but Counseling the PL or the SPL, giving him a few pointers about how to worked a lot better.

Of course there were times when a Lad in a Patrol was being a real little toad and was out of control, when this happened and it became apparent that he was too big of a problem for the youth leadership, I would have a word with him. But I found that the better I became at training the members of the PLC, the less I had to do this.

Trust them and Let them lead, doesn't work without training them.

Nearly all the Scouts I have ever met are anxious to please, they want to do a good job. We the adults need to tap into this and give them the tools to do a good job. If we use the 11 skills listed and train the PLC members to use them, I fail to see how there could be a "Bad Patrol Leader"

Eamonn

[Bob White 20]

Absolutely right Eamonn.

[Eagledad 2777]

Good post Eamonn. One fact that some of us tend to loose sight is even though this is a program for boys, it is the adults program to guide boys into developing habits of making ethical decisions. If in fact the adults dont teach and train through the program, then it really isnt a boy run program.

 

On that, we also dont talk much about adult side of development and growth. Even you mention that through the years, you got better at motivating scouts. I dont think that I have ever met a good SM with less than three years experience. The SM and other adults need to develop the habit of learning from each past experience of working with a scout so that they do better with the next scout in the same situation.

 

And finally, where does todays Scoutmaster learn the eleven leadership skills?

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

 

[acco40 95]

All MLB teams have a batting coach - not all players hit the baseball with equal aplomb!

 

The same can be said for Scout troops. The majority of posters on this forum are adult leaders and I think that some take umbrage with the slant that training is a panacea for all the foibles of youth leadership. Can we all work to be better trainers for our youth? Yes! Is bad leadership always the fault of the trainers? No.

 

That said, the proper adult response to poor leadership from the youth is not to pull out the hook but to intensify our efforts for that leader. However, it can be frustrating when the boys don't try and meet us half way.

[ASM59 10]

Eamonn,

 

It sounds like you're saying we (adults) need to mentor Scouts in their leadership positions. Through the work I've done in our Church's youth group and training I've received; I've come to understand that mentoring can be the most effective way (if not the only effective way) to teach skills like you're talking about here. Mentoring doesnt need to always be a one on one relationship and within the context of Scouting should not be.

 

You allude to relationships that are developed so, Ive included some thoughts below with regard to different kinds of relationships that develop between people and the kinds of power that bind relationships. I think, to be effective in training youth in leadership skills, we should seek a close relationship that is bound by referent power. Then, we have a chance at being able to instill these skills in our Scouts; all within the context of the G2SS of course.

 

Some different kinds of relationships:

Acquaintances - built based on general information and memories

Casual Friendships - built on common interests and affirmations

Close Relationships - built when people are headed in the same direction in life and they go through stretching times together

 

Kinds of power within relationships:

Reward power;

Power based on rewards offered like giving attention, pay raises, promotions ...

Coercive power;

Negative reinforcement / Withdrawal of attention, Threats, Punishment

Positional power;

Society given power based on position like an employer, policeman, teacher ...

Expert power;

Person(s) with special knowledge or skill such as accepting an attorney's advice based on his education and experience.

Referent power;

Power given from the student based on; wanting to be like you, respect for who you are, liking you, and wanting to be liked by you.

 

ASM59

[Eamonn 61]

Hi Barry,

You know how much I enjoy our little chats.

I suppose that I should really spin off, but what the heck.

I share your concerns about adult Leader development and growth.

Maybe I should point out to everyone that this list of 11 Leadership skills was for a long time the basis of the Boy Scout Wood Badge course and it's not anything new or something that I put together. I'm really not that bright.

As you know I am not in favor of mandatory training. I believe wholeheartedly that trying to train a adult who is only attending training's because he has to, is up there with trying to teach a pig to sing.

In another forum there was a very long and very interesting thread about what sort of people make the best leaders? Some people thought that Eagle Scouts were the best, while others thought that Eagle Scouts made the worst. My feelings are that the leader who understands that he is in business to serve the Lads or in Venturing the Lads and Lassies, is the person who will make the best leader.

It does seem that I along with a few others are at times a little to quick to blame the Scoutmaster for all the woes that happen.

Maybe we need to take a long hard look at the Training team.

While it may seem unimportant, I think it's a shame that we don't have a position patch for Trainers. I have read and do have a fairly up to date copy of the Leadership Training Committee Guide (#34169E - 2001 printing) I have read that the individual is asked to perform a service. It is an ad hoc,short term role. I do not agree with this. In my opinion we need to grab hold of the best trainers that are out there and get them working.

At the bottom of almost every page it states:

"Your job is training leaders - not running training courses"

I have served as both a District and Council Training Chair and have to admit to being guilty of being a "Course runner" more than a real trainer.

Some might say that one on one training at the unit level is something that could be left with the Unit Commissioner. I really don't think this would work, but I'm willing to say that there are some wonderful UC's who would and could do a great job. We have in this forum looked at Commissioner Service at length and it seems that this is an area that does need some attention.

One reason why Wood Badge works so well is that the participants come away with a plan (the ticket)and if the system works, which it seems to most of th time they get to work with a ticket counselor.

While I'm not sure that we need a ticket for all training's (OJ did have something very similar after attending the OA NLS) I do like the idea that of assigning a training team member to work with participants after they complete the practical training. If they are willing to allow the trainer in.

Leaders who attend our Council Summer Camp are not over-worked, in fact many do very little for the week they are in camp. We do offer a First Year Camper program for the Scouts, maybe we need to offer training's for our adults. I would love to find out more about GPS and be shown where the resources are so that once I get to know what the language is and what the heck people are talking about, I could find out more on my own.

We have a trading post that could be selling all sorts of Literature.

I really enjoyed watching the faces of the adults light up on the old WB course when they finished making the belt with the splices.

We have Camporees and at long last we are seeing a lot more involvement in the running of these by the SPL's from the Troops in the District, this again frees the adult leaders, who could use this "Down-time" to brush up on or learn a new skill or understanding of the program.

I know that during my stint as Training Chair. My main concern was making sure that courses were available and staffed. The courses are good and do touch on a lot of stuff, maybe a little too much?

I have not forgotten Round Table meetings, these when done right are wonderful. However when they become 60% Announcements and less than 40% program they lose a lot.

Eamonn.

 

[Bob White 20]

Having strong training teams is important but there is little that can done to affect that beyond the local district and council. Learning to be be a good presenter can take years of development. Consider what a small percentage of your community would make a good trainer and then consider what a small percentage of them might be scouting volunteers.

 

Much of the success of training volunteers is within the volunteer themselves and their attitude and willingness to learn. Our biggest challenge as trainers is to get adults, many of whom have lead poorly or been lead poorly to put aside previous notions of what the have been brought up to think leadership is and to get them to embrace real leadership methods.

 

Keep in mind that for most our exposure to leadership is the workplace. In most workplaces the goalis not the development of another person, the goal is a monetary figure or product sales.

 

Someone who was a good truck driver long enough gets made the manager of the drivers , a salesman with high sales figures is made the sales managerand so on. By sales skills are not management skills, and management skills are not leadership skills.

 

You manage things, you lead people.

 

Getting people who have been managed as things, and teaching them to lead as people for the benefit of others, is as foreign to most as walking on the moon.

 

But a example is CNYScouter, a new adult leader whose goal goes beyond just being a warm body helper to wanting to see boys get a real scouting experience. That kind of attitude will make a positive impact in the lives of boys. He asks questions. He reads the handbook and wants to know more. He is will ing to take the time to be a student, before he tries to be the teacher. If every troop just had a scoutmaster with that attitude the program could do the rest.

 

 

 

 

[Eamonn 61]

I do agree Bob,

I do however think that along with good presenters we need knowledgeable people who are well versed in the program, that could or would go into the unit to work with willing new leaders.

There are people who are outstanding presenters, who can stand up before a group of people and present the course material, while knowing Little or nothing about the program. For the sake of discussion lets say that our truck driver is not good at presenting. He might however have a wonderful understanding of the methods of Scouting and be a whiz-kid knowing and being able to show a new leader where to look for or go to for resources.

At present I think the mindset of Training Teams is once they have got the new Leader wearing the Trained Patch, that their work is done and they move on preparing for the next course and the next new leader. I think that we need to look at the Trained Patch as being the bare minimum that a leader needs to get by and while Leadership courses are great, we do need to ensure that this new leader is given the skills that he needs to deliver the program to the Scouts he serves.

Self-study can and does work, but very few books can pass on "Imagineering". Reading about ropes, number 10 cans and old inner-tubes, can't make the number 10 can into an atomic isotope, surrounded by a toxic marsh full of man-eating alligators. Sure this stuff is old hat to some of us white haired old geezers, but it is new to the new Leader and at this time we don't do very much to pass it on to the new guy.

I don't know how we can impress upon new leaders how important planning is.

Over the weekend I was invited to brunch at a friends house. The guy is a very nice fellow, in fact he was the Cubmaster of the Pack I was Cubmaster of (The second one) As ever we ended talking about Scouting. He made the comment that the motto for Scouts is be prepared, but the motto for leaders is we'll get by!! He serves as an ASM. The more we talked the more it became apparent that the only time they planned anything was when they were presenting a merit badge class.

I honestly believe that the reason why so many troops spend so much time on these darn merit badges is because everything they need to do is clearly laid out for them and requires little or no imagination.

Eamonn

[acco40 95]

"Much of the success of training volunteers is within the volunteer themselves and their attitude and willingness to learn."

 

But the corollary, the success of the youth leaders is NOT within them but all of their success is due to their trainers (i.e. Scoutmaster)?

[evmori 11]

Excellent observation, acco. Apparently - based on other posts - that is a true statement.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Eagledad 2777]

>>I honestly believe that the reason why so many troops spend so much time on these darn merit badges is because everything they need to do is clearly laid out for them and requires little or no imagination.

[Bob White 20]

You are absolutely right acco, and that is because developing the scout is the Scoutmaster's job.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori 11]

So if adult leaders are bad it is their fault & if boy leaders are bad it is the adult leaders fault? Is that correct?

[Bob White 20]

If the adult leaders are bad it would seem to be the responsibility of the person or persons who selected them.

 

Do not expect to be able to measure the scouts with the same ruler you use for an adult. That to me would seem quite inequitable.

[evmori 11]

OK. Let me see if I understand this. If an adult is a bad leader, the adult not the one who trained the adult is responsible for being a bad leader. And if a boy is a bad leader, the adult(s) who has trained the boy not the boy himself is responsible for the boy being a bad leader.

 

How do you justify this line of thinking? It doesn't make sense.

 

The trainer might be responsible or the trainee (adult or youth) might be responsible or both might be responsible for a bad leader (adult or youth).

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10