Scout Skills, Woodcraft, and Outing Participation

[JoeBob 606]

Gentlemen,

 

Apologies for the long question; I want you to have enough information.

 

Our troop is in a big city and has been boy-led for several years. Although we claim to be a 'High Adventure Troop', we have actually devolved into a car-camping club for boys. The boys make up the annual calendar, and schedule one trip per month. The PLC chooses activities that they are familiar with for trips: caving, climbing (indoors), rafting, snow skiing, zip-lines, water skiing/tubing, shooting (rifle and shotgun), Camporee, bicycling, summer camp, canoeing, and one backpacking trip. We seem to rotate these same activities on an annual basis, with small variance. We do send an annual contingent to Philmont, Northern Tier, or Seabase. (How bad is it when 3 of your Philmont crew had never been backpacking before New Mexico?)

 

Except for the one (poorly attended) backpacking trip, everything is car-camping and affords little chance for scouts to practice their scout skills. In fact, if you skip the back-packing trip, you don't NEED scout skills.

 

 

Which brings into focus our almost total lack of proficiency in scout skills. In BORs we're seeing T-2-1 handbooks that are signed off, once and done, and no interest in retaining skills or teaching younger scouts. They don't go out into the woods, so they don't need to know birds and trees and orienteering. Why waste time developing acumen with ropes, saws, axes; why have a pair of well-broken-in boots? They'll never use them. Even the first aid skills are scoffed at: dial 911 and let the paramedics do it...

 

It's a vicious circle: The PLC doesn't want to go into the deep woods because they're not comfortable there with no skills. They won't develop the woods skills unless we can convince them to go into the woods where they'll see the value of what we'd like for them to learn.

 

 

Okay, the boys are learning management skills planning menus and assigning KP as they rotate through PORs. They are having fun doing fun things.

 

But I fear that they are missing out on the self-reliance a boy grows when he realizes that he can take care of himself without an elaborate civilized support structure. They have no real challenges! How can we expect them to grow good character when they never leave their comfort zone.

 

My question is three-fold:

1- Am I wrong in wanting to impose my Scouting expectations on the modern world? Are the basic scout skills irrelevant in the digital age?

2- What can I do to motivate / sell more of our adult leaders? (We have a core of 5-6 newer adults who share the same vision for the troop. We want our boys to be challenged and grow. The older leadership has settled for "whatever the boys want to do" car camping.)

3- How could we convince the boys to expect more of themselves? Right now, they're very comfortable playing at being Boy Scouts and accomplishing little of lasting value. They've never known any different...

 

 

[T2Eagle 902]

JoeBob,

 

You pose good questions and I'll have to give some thought before I can answer. Your troop sounds similar to mine and I struggle with the same questions.

 

But I think it's also important to ask yourself what their peers are doing while your boys are "caving, climbing (indoors), rafting, snow skiing, zip-lines, water skiing/tubing, shooting (rifle and shotgun), Camporee, bicycling, summer camp, canoeing, and one backpacking trip." The answer is probably playing video games and participating in entirely adult directed activities. Your scouts could probably get where you want them to go pretty quickly if they desire it. Their peers would have a hard time even understanding where you want them to go.

[Eagle92 110]

JoeBob,

 

1- Am I wrong in wanting to impose my Scouting expectations on the modern world? Are the basic scout skills irrelevant in the digital age?

 

Gonna take this in two parts. Up to a point, it is OK to want to impose your expectations. It's when you are going counter to the PLC's wants that you cross the line.

 

The key is to make the skills usable and FUN. Interpatrol contests, getting them away

frm the other patrols, etc. is what I would recommend. A

 

Had a similar conversation last night. How do you motivate a Star Scout who won't go to meetings b/c he is bored. Again keep it fun. Is the #1 thing. #2 Instill in them a service to the younger scouts. When they get 2nd class or so, have them start working with the younger ones on first aid. Heck use mixed age patrols and have the older ones buddy up with a newby so that they get expereince in teaching.

 

 

As for basic scout skill being irrelivant in the modern digital age.... HORSEHOCKEY! And yes that is me screanmin at the top of my lungs.

 

Do you know the story of the NASA astronaut who used the pioneering skills he learned as a Scout, and taught as an ASM, to solve a problem on the shuttle? Long story short and if my memory serves, the robotic arm in the shuttle broke, and needed to be secured before reentry. The astronaut told ground control he could fix it using a lashing and paracord. Ground control told him let the engineers figure out what to do before doing anything. 3 days later, ground control said the engineers said go ahead and use the lashing as that is the best thing to do.

 

Or how about the Marine who was deployed and several of the tents in his unit had broken plastic pieces on the guy lines. He used the taunt-line to fix the problem, and when the CO saw what he was doing, told him to teach everyone else the know to fix the problem.

 

Worse case though was a friend who fell down a cliff while hiking. He was stuck for a week on the side of the cliff, but used his skills to do first aid on himself, and survive until rescued.

 

 

 

2- What can I do to motivate / sell more of our adult leaders? (We have a core of 5-6 newer adults who share the same vision for the troop. We want our boys to be challenged and grow. The older leadership has settled for "whatever the boys want to do" car camping.)

 

How much HA expereince do you have? My old den is now Webelos I's, and they are chomping at the bit to camp like Boy Scouts. Some have backpacks already, some have gear on their Christmas lists. Why? I talked up some of the things I did as a scout, and it pumped them up. Just as one leader who is a QM talked up his experiences in Sea Scouts got me motivated about that program, I got my guys pumped.

 

Talk, talk, talk. Then set the example. And if you get one Scout following your lead, it will have a domino affect. Don't believe me. My old DC has a youtube video of his survival shelter in the snow. One of his scouts saw it, and promptly went into the back yard and built his own. When he went camping with the troop last month at camporee, instead of tent like everyone else, he did a "survival shelter" of plastic drop cloth. Others saw it, were impressed, and then really impressed when they found it a Webelos did it.

 

Yes I was a beaming dad about that

 

 

3- How could we convince the boys to expect more of themselves? Right now, they're very comfortable playing at being Boy Scouts and accomplishing little of lasting value. They've never known any different...,

 

talk and setting the example is good. Challenges work to. Not the " I challenge you to..." but " what do you think of....? want to try it?"

 

 

 

[Kudu 186]

 

JoeBob,

 

The Troop you describe sounds like a Chief Scout Executive's vision of paradise!

 

"Okay, the boys are learning management skills planning menus and assigning KP as they rotate through PORs."

 

The Patrol Method is Leadership Development's **** .

 

So forget what Wood Badge calls the "Patrol Method."

 

Don't fret about Scout Skills and Woodcraft.

 

Alllow electronics in the backwoods.

 

Don't try to change the whole Troop.

 

By all means, circumvent your six month POR student council PLC!

 

The quickest route to where you want to go is to get your backpacking adults and your Philmont crew together to plan backwoods "Patrol" adventures (a "backwoods fishing trip," for instance) that will appeal only to your outdoor boys.

 

The adults pick the two most competent Scouts to lead the outdoor boys during the day (to meet up with the adults in the afternoon). Don't define their actual "leadership" roles.

 

These trusted natural leaders pick who is in their ad hoc Patrol: The Scouts they like, and (most important) can control when the adults are not around.

 

Natural leaders tend to reject trouble-makers and the immature.

 

A Patrol of "rejects" should be welcome to hike in the general vicinity of the adults.

 

When you camp, your mature Scouts can camp no closer than B-P's minimum of 300 feet from the adult Patrol. The immature Patrol should camp on the other side of the adult Patrol, at the distance you judge wisest.

 

Useful outdoor skills and the "Real" Patrol Method will quickly emerge within these two ad hoc Patrols without the adults doing much at all.

 

For more details use the Scouter.Com search box to find "Backwoods Fishing Trip" (with the quotes).

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

[Twocubdad 665]

So climbing, caving, canoeing, shooting, etc., aren't Scout skills?

 

What's wrong with using the activities your Scouts enjoy and taking them to a higher level? Instead of just splashing around the lake, turn canoeing into a canoe trek. Same for biking. Find some natural rock for a climbing trip. I dont' believe there is any magic in backpacking you can't find on one of these other activities. It's all in the implementation. There are a lot of troops which would be envious of your program. Build on what you have.

 

Traditional scoutcraft is as revelant as you make it. If your goal is proficiency in T-2-1 skills, incorporate those into your program. If you can't teach ropework climbing and canoeing, I'm not sure when you can. But modern backwoods ethics don't necessarily include traditional scoutcraft. A pristine alpine meadow isn't the spot for a signaling tower, you know!

 

[SeattlePioneer 144]

First, pat yourself on the back: things could be a LOT worse.

[Eagle92 110]

SP,

 

You aint joking. I know a troop that had 5 Scout "camp" this past Eagle Weekend. Slept in cabins, ate in the cafeteria, and the bulk of the troop couldn't go. Nothing but MBs all weekend.

 

At least at summer camp, you are in a tent, got intertroop activities, and some fun MBs to work on like Wilderness Survival, Rifle, Shotgun, etc. Nothing but paperpushing MBs this past weekend though.

 

As GBB said, "OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING.

 

Maybe the troop 20-30 minutes away that alternates backpacking a section of the AT and summer camp every year may be a better fit? Oldest son's eyes lit up when I was talking about that troop not going to summer camp this year, instead doing the AT.

[packsaddle 753]

We would end up with an academic equivalent of this situation if we allowed students to determine their own curricula. We don't, at least not here.

But you're IN the situation already and need to find a way to do things differently. I think Kudu has outlined a way out of this very nicely. I plan to print your original post and Kudu's reply to hand out to new leaders and parents. It is a really nice example to think about.

Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention.

[Kudu 186]

 

Twocubdad writes:

 

"So climbing, caving, canoeing, shooting, etc., aren't Scout skills? ... I don't believe there is any magic in backpacking you can't find on one of these other activities..."

 

The "magic" that once made Scouting popular is simple: a traditional outdoor boy's most memorable events happen without adult witness.

 

In some countries, a Scout could not advance beyond Tenderfoot without undertaking a day-long eight (8) mile map & compass "Journey" through the backwoods without benefit of older boys or adults. Our Second Class "five mile hike" is the only pale ghostly remnant that remains in the BSA. See Journey Requirements:

 

http://www.inquiry.net/advancement/traditional/journey_requirements.htm

 

The world-wide universal test of a First Class Scout is Baden-Powell's First Class Journey, an unsupervised fifteen mile overnight into the wild. See the Adult Guide to First Class Journeys:

 

http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/hikes/1st_class_hike.htm

 

Likewise, William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt's test of a "Real" Patrol, was regular Patrol Outings without adult supervision:

 

"You want your Patrol to be a real one, and only a hiking Patrol is a Real Patrol"

 

http://www.inquiry.net/patrol/real.htm

 

Wood Badge killed Green Bar Bill's life work by redefining "Patrol Method" along the lines that JoeBob describes: indoor student council meetings where six month POR candidates vote on regular whole-Troop activities that require adult supervision, plus "High Adventure" Disney that requires expensive adult infrastructure.

 

Don't get me wrong: Disney BSA is a lot of fun: local zip-lines, 60-foot climbing towers, SCUBA, plus Seabase, Northern Tier, etc., and it should be a part of every modern unit's program. But it is not the unsupervised "Real" Patrol Method that boys can pull off without "two deep" adult helicopters.

 

Unsupervised Patrol day treks are one of the few remaining approved activities that can deliver the magic of "Real" Scouting Adventure as defined by Baden-Powell or Green Bar Bill.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

(This message has been edited by Kudu)

[Eagledad 2797]

Our troop kind of works like Kudu's, but we called his ad hoc patrols adventure patrols. Something I try to mention once in a while that Kudu hints at is that not all scouts like big adventure. Many are in the troop for other reasons like socializing or leadership. I once polled the older scouts in our troop (43) and only 16 said they enjoyed going on the big high adventure treks every year. .

 

We created our adventure patrols so scouts with different intrest could pull a bunch of scouts with like minded interest to go on their own outings. Many times that group is in the same troop campout, but doing more advanced activities.

 

But saying that while many scouts arent into the Philmont type of adventure all the time, we are a backpacking troop. In most cases, our patrols could easily pack their gear and do a 5 mile trek without any preparation. So all our scouts do have some level of back country skills. In fact, a surprise hike would help the scouts learn where they need some practice, and it will be fun for most.

 

Also Twocub's suggestion of just stepping the campouts up a notch works well. We added in canoeing a few times when were near a lake. We once did a backpack/biking/canoeing campout where the scouts got up, packed, hiked, and biked to a different campsite. The had so much fun because they redid all those activities during free time the rest of the day. They were dead a sleep by 8:30 that night. And, we did all that at a local camp. The campsite they moved to was only a few hundred feet from the first.

 

I think you are in a good place. You are just in the rut of creativity. What we did when we hit this same wall and what Kudu is suggesting is open the program more and encourage the scouts to create some of their own minnie adventures that gives them more of that sense of freedom and independence. Most boys by nature soak up freedom and independence like a dry sponge. It also makes a boy feel more adult when the adults show a trust of their skills.

 

Finally, so that you don't feel you are getting away from the values part of the program, set some requirements on them. A wise old SM suggested having our youth leaders always include activities under the themes of character, fitness, and citizenship. Surprisingly it's not as hard as it first sounds, most of the activities already require the scouts to do some action under those ideals. But preplanning them helps them see the noble side of the scouting program. The scouts really enjoyed taking ownership of those ideals. I nener had to ask what they planned, they were proud to show me.

 

Lots of gold stuff here, it's a fun read.

 

Barry