ASM takeover?

[CalKel 10]

Hello. My sons Boy Scout troop has some drama going on and I (and some of the parents) dont know what to do. Our SM (who is extremely unorganized) and one of the ASMs are buddies. SM brought ASM to the troop when he came along. They immediately appointed their boys in leadership positions without a vote, etc. The boys fool around during meetings, use their electrical devices when they should be cleaning, etc. and arent really leading the younger boys.

 

We had an awesome committee chair and troop committee until a couple of weeks ago. The ASM, SM and charter rep came to the troop committee meeting and announced that the chair was stepping down and the ASM was going to be the new chair. We think the ASM and SM have been bad-mouthing the chair and he believes them. The chair is a great person-calm, diligent and an all around great guy. Hes actually a minister at a church. At the meeting, they didnt allow any ASMs (even though they are parents) in the meeting. It was all done very underhanded. One of them commented to another that now the troop committee wont tell them what to do with troop money anymore. They waited until a long-time troop member (and ex SM) had gone out of town to do this.

 

Now, the ASM is sending out many SM-sounding emails about trips, plans, meeting stuff. They rarely attend hikes, etc. but its like he has just taken over as SM and the real SM is allowing him to do it (maybe hes relieved since hes so unorganized).

 

The ASM is not very ethical. He happily told the troop committee how, in his old cub scout group, he had them open up popcorn packages, re-packaged them and sold them for more. Im not sure if this is allowed but it seemed like cheating to me. He was asked to leave his old troop but I dont know why.

 

He also told another parent, who was saying how intense the fishing badge was, that all she needed to do was go buy a couple of different fish, put them in a kiddie pool in the backyard and have the boy catch them. She said that was cheating and he told her that nobody follows the rules to get badges.

 

Maybe Im nave but I want my son to really earn his badges.

 

Some in the troop committee have now resigned (and the SM and ASM wives are being put in their place) but I think thats exactly what they want.

 

We have some great ASMs but the SM doesnt give them assignments /direction, etc. They mostly stand around and try to help the boys.

 

We are looking at another troop but it makes me sad that our son wont be around his friends.

 

I know I sound like a huge tattle-tale but I wanted to see what you all suggest we do? I was thinking of talking to the charter rep but I dont know if itll do any good.

 

Im so sorry this is so incredibly long!

 

Signed,

 

Sad and frustrated Boy Scout mom

 

[fred8033 1599]

I'm sad for your difficult situation. My apologies but it is difficult to be able to comment on what your describing. Your description reflects that your very affected. And it's difficult to know what's going on.

 

My only comment is that your son's time in scouting is short. It might not seem that way but it is. If you don't see a quick solution, move on. The most important thing is that your son has a positive learning and growing experience. If the troop leadership dynamic hurting that experience, move on.

 

If anything, invite your son's friends to join you in the troop you move into.

[moosetracker 132]

My question is how did they do the take-over? I see the section " We think the ASM and SM have been bad-mouthing the chair and he believes them. " If "he" is the COR, in which case they may have been underhanded, but they did it correctly. If they just did a takeover without the COR backing them, then they have not authority to do it.

 

 

Either way, your group who opposes this move should have a friendly talk with the COR to see if you can rectify the situation with them after the fact. If they don't know what is going on, you have an advantage to swing the situation around to your favor. If they have poisioned the COR view, then you have a disadvantage in having to clarify charges against the CC after the fact and re-win favor and support.

[Lisabob 13]

I understand your sadness, but if that friendly talk with the COR doesn't quickly rectify things, then you are more than justified in saying "thanks for all you've taught our son" and moving on to a troop where the adult drama doesn't overshadow the kids' experiences.

 

As for being with his friends: if things continue in the vein that you've outlined, others will probably jump ship, too. Who knows, his friends might be among them. And if the other troop is any good, he will soon have great friends there, too.

 

 

[qwazse 4350]

Hi CK,

 

I'm a pretty disorganized Advisor, so I can relate to wanting an organized assistant you can trust. I also keep my committee at a distance.

 

I figure the best you can do is ask the charter org rep what he was thinking.

 

The second thing is to understand the troop finances better. Has the committee been too controlling? Have they been obligating the troop to a lot of oversight? For programs that the boys aren't interested in?

 

Have the SM's boys taken all the leadership positions?

 

Finally, pay attention to your boys. If they are having fun and going on outings, all this other stuff will fall by the wayside,

[Eagledad 2781]

We've had a few families transfer out and a few join after they realize that their goals and expectations didn't match the program. I'm with Fred and Lisa in that finding a troop without the drama and that still fits your needs is likely the best way to go. I do understand the struggle and hurt of leaving friends, but with strong support from the family, your son will have a great experience in another troop. And as others have said, it is likely the friends will want some of those experiences as well.

 

I wish you well, I hate adult drama.

 

Barry

[CalicoPenn 729]

If this decision of the COR is final, (and the one person that can reverse the COR is the head of the institution) then the answer is to vote with your feet - leave the unit - and take as many Scouts with you as you can to a different or a new unit, and don't forget to tell the head of the institution exactly why you are all leaving the unit, and use such terms as "we no longer trust you".

 

Your former CM was a minister? Maybe his church will be the sponsor of a new unit that you can start.(This message has been edited by calicopenn)

[Beavah 205]

Yah, hmmmm...

 

Hiya CalKel, and welcome to da Scouter.Com forums.

 

As fred8033 says, it's hard for us to comment from afar. We understand that you feel affected, and feel that da changes were "underhanded". At the same time, tryin' to read between the lines, this sorta sounds like many of the changes were being made the right way. The Chair was stepping down, the SM recognizes his lack of organization and is lookin' for a committee chair to take some of that load off him, so the organized ASM moves into the CC role and takes up sending out notices and such. That can be a fine way for a CC and SM to work together, with one managing notices and parent communication and the other managing youth leaders and boys on outings.

 

Da other couple of hearsay comments are just hearsay, eh? That stuff is always unreliable at best.

 

So I get that yeh really liked the former CC, and yeh don't seem to like or communicate well with the new CC and SM, but sometimes we adults create too much drama ourselves, eh? This really is all just minor organizational issues in a kids' program, and really isn't worth even a single evening's heartburn.

 

The real question for yeh should be "Is our son having a good experience?" If the answer to that is "yes", then regardless of your feelings toward one or another leaders, support your son's program. When you're gettin' other people's time for free and they're doin' well by your kid, then I reckon it's just fair that yeh put up with their foibles and eccentricities. If your son isn't havin' a good experience, then yeh should look for other opportunities, regardless of how much yeh like the adult leaders personally.

 

Make it about supportin' your son, and let da adult drama go.

 

Beavah

 

[NJCubScouter 1389]

As fred8033 says, it's hard for us to comment from afar.

 

And yet, somehow, we manage to do so anyway. (Sorry, I had to throw that in.)

 

I agree with others who suggest that the big question here is, what does your son think? And more broadly, what do the boys think? Assuming that by "leadership positions", you mean that the SM or ASM/CC's son was appointed SPL by adult leaders without a vote of the boys, are the other boys concerned about that? Do the boys (in general, including your son) know that the SPL is supposed to be elected? Are the boys concerned that their youth leaders seem to be goofing around and not doing their jobs?

 

On the other hand, I think there are limitations to "what do the boys think." Sometimes they do not know how things are "supposed to be" and they might not really be aware whether they are learning what they are supposed to be learning. If it is your conclusion that your son is engaging in a totally nonproductive activity, or a counterproductive activity, I think you have the right to strongly suggest looking for another troop.

 

But also keep in mind that the grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side of the fence, or in the next troop over. These sorts of problems are, unfortunately, a result of our flawed human nature, and chances are the folks over in Troop 2 are human beings as well. Hopefully they are doing a better job of dealing with it, and at that point you and your son have a choice.