Basementdweller 608 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 The group seems to feel that Council owned Camps are needed, I would like to explore facilities. When you go to a camp what is your expectation on buildings, activities, and location? should your camp have a fishing lake, rappelling tower, swimming pool, dining hall, weapons ranges, hiking trails, natural feature???? ATV's???? Cabins???? four walls and a roof? electric, heat, full kitchen?????? flush toilets and showers???? Drive up campsites? Provided fire wood? What about these cub focused camps with theme build buildings, some with castles or timber forts. Are they excessive???? too expensive????? Link to post Share on other sites
perdidochas 658 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 My expectations: Minimum Fishing/swimming/boating lake Showers, flush toilets in developed area Primitive area away from developed area Rifle/archery/skeet ranges Hiking trails A rappelling tower would be nice. Link to post Share on other sites
Abel Magwitch 10 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 All that I expect is for the camp (and the program if its summer camp) to be as the council has promised for the fees charged. I expect the facilities to be that of quality. The facilities and the program are for the boys we serve. The camp should be in as good of condition as the renovated Scout office. Link to post Share on other sites
emb021 16 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Thing is, you can have primitive camps and you can have more developed camps. Some camps may have a "Cub World" as part of that. Its great if a council had a mix of both. For a developed camp I would expect: Dining Hall Health Building Fishing/swimming/boating lake. Swimming pool IF swimming in the lake/stream is not allowed/safe Showers, flush toilets Shelters in camping areas. Rifle/archery/skeet ranges COPE course, climbing/rappelling tower. Hiking trails Primitive camping area away from developed area If a "Cub World", far enough away as to not bother the Boy Scouts/Venturers Not a fan of cabins for people to use, adirondacks are ok, but prefer that not be there. A shelter (ie, just a roof over a cement pad) is what I would prefer. Building that can be used for training purposes (meetings and the like) is great also. Such building can also be useful for the council to allow them to rent out the camp to groups during the week. This would help the council keep costs down. At primitive camps I would expect no more then: shelters, privies, cold showers, maybe a central shelter with a basic kitchen. Link to post Share on other sites
shortridge 184 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 The program should be whatever the Scouts want, and it should be delivered as advertised. From a basic facilities standpoint, I'd like clean latrines and showers, and tents and tarps in good repair. The first aid lodge should be up to date, and program equipment should be new or in well-maintained condition. Personally, I'd like a top-notch trail system with lots of remote outpost sites that are difficult to get to. All else is optional. A great staff can take a physically primitive camp and turn it into a top-notch program site with the right attitude and sufficient resources. And a camp with top-of-the-line facilities can be run by a staff that doesn't care, and makes the entire experience lousy for everyone. The worst possible scenario is if the facilities and equipment are not up to snuff and the staff is unmotivated and unqualified. Link to post Share on other sites
Abel Magwitch 10 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Shortridge sums it up in a nutshell. Link to post Share on other sites
IM_Kathy 32 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 we have dining hall, swimming pool with boy showers there and I'm told they have flush toilets there, seperate adult showers with flush toilets, campsites have latrines, bring your own tents or use the canvas wall tents (we prefer those), camp provides either a rain fly or roof structure depending on your site, fishing lake, boating lake, climbing tower, shooting range, archary range, lots of trails, many different work areas for spreading out mb classes. we also have a scoutmaster lodge where leaders can charge phones and use internet for those that have to keep in a little contact with work. Oh yeah and a trading post - boys love the trading post! I've not sure what all they have on the other side of the campgrounds where the cubs are, but I believe they built some cabin areas and have some tent areas. Link to post Share on other sites
JMHawkins 15 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Oh yeah and a trading post - boys love the trading post! Ha! We spent a week-end off-season at our local Council camp and the scouts were bitterly dissapointed that the trading post wasn't open. For physical facilities (assuming they're staffed by good staffers), my preference would be: -developed campsites with tent platforms, dining fly area, campfire and latrines that can withstand constant occupation over the summer. -primitive campsite areas slightly removed from the developed portion -"Parade Ground" large open field with flag pole -Program areas for various activities (preferably with shelters, it rains a lot in our neck of the woods, even in summer) -Lake with swimming, boating, and fishing facilities. -Archery, Rifle and Shotgun ranges -Council Campfire bowl large enough to hold all the troops who would be at camp the same week -trails. -Shower facilities -First aid and camp office facilities, but NO DINNING HALL! Scouts cook for themselves in their camps. -Other activity structures as affordable (climbing wall, COPE course, etc). -A trading post that looks like it was built in 1842 and last modernized around 1924. Bonus points to put it on the lakefront with a cargo dock and a row boat that brings in "new shipments" every couple of days during camp. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle732 27 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 A challenging high adventure program for older scouts. Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Not talking program here folks.... Just the grounds and what sort of things reside on the grounds. Link to post Share on other sites
Tampa Turtle 1011 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Cubside: Working latrines especially for Mom's (big issue) and surge of boys at once. Water area for canoe, etc. Covered picnic areas for cooking. Scouts: Lots of hiking trails--enough for a 5 mile loop. Variety of terrain Fire rings remote camping sites Latrine/port a let near site. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle92 110 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Depends upon the proposed use of the camp? Except for wilderness camps, i.e. nothing but nature, at an absolute minimum I think the following would be needed. Every campsite would have access to a sanitary toilet facility within 300' but not less than 100'. I bold that for emphasis b/c that wording, or very similar wording, is found in 2 different BSA documents in regards to Cub Scouts: Council Family Camp National Standards and Pack Overnighter Site Approval Standards. Grant you the Pack Overniter form is one found in BALOO, and councils are suppsoe to have a list of approved CS sites, but how many actually do? Link to post Share on other sites
RememberSchiff 3683 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Hah, so can we burn down the %#$@% camp stores with their Snicker's and Ben & Jerry's? These days what I would want in facilities is likely a small subset of what is legally required by local/state/federal for a summer resident camp and there most of the expenses lie, well except the expenses for those that want WIFI, battery charging outlets, presentation theatres, WB classrooms, camp mess hall, Starbucks kiosk, picnic tables, camp site pavillon, camp store,... For my scouts this will do Water/toilet/shower/trail map/camp sites/swimming/boats/archery/rifle range/gathering campfire area. Beyond that depends on program and staff, e.g., if a blacksmithing program was desired and good instructors were at the ready, I can see adding a workshop and equipment. My $0.02 - $0.02 for unscoutlike language(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff) Link to post Share on other sites
Cambridgeskip 658 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Out of interest how widely dispersed are scout camp sites in the USA? Clearly you have a much lower population density than the UK so I assume the camp sites are equally more widely dispersed. How many would you expect to have within, say, 50 miles? Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Cam.....Depends on your location.....Within an hour of drive of town there is 5 Council owned camps.....Within 2 1/2 hours there is 12...Not owned by the same council. These vary in quality from a privy to full Blown corporate sponsored jamboree setting. We use council owned property for summer resident camp and that is it. Generally our troop camps in national and state forest, state parks, or service club owned property, Lions park, Y park, fireman's Park or the Legion's Lake front. The Pack does not utilize council owned camps at all.....We hold our own day camp at the CO and local park..... Several boys did go to the halloween shindig at the camp..... So My line of questioning stems from how little our Troop, Pack and Crew use our local scout camps...... Link to post Share on other sites
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