ONLY for the boys?

[KC9DDI 11]

And people that forget that the ONLY reason we are here is THE BOYS. Period. Dot dash.

 

This quote got me thinking.

 

It seems popular for us to dismiss people or ideas we don't agree with by claiming that they're "not in it for the boys."

 

The helicopter parent who goes overboard worrying about THE BOYS' safety? Not in it for the boys.

 

The adult leader who chooses to serve at a district or council level, to help plan programs to reach THE BOYS in multiple units? Not in it for the boys.

 

The DE doing his job to raise funds to support camp facilities used by THE BOYS, or ScoutReach units to reach a bunch of BOYS who might not otherwise be involved in Scouting? Not in it for the boys.

 

The SM, CC or ASM who disagrees with you on the best way to direct your unit's program for THE BOYS? Not in it for the boys.

 

I guess my point here is two-fold: The first is that it really doesn't seem appropriate to criticize someone's motivation, when what you really disagree with are that person's methods. Even that helicopter parent or psycho CC/SM probably believes that they are acting in the best interest of the youth - even if the way they go about it is problematic.

 

I believe that in order to solve a problem, it's important to have an accurate understanding of the problem. And, in most cases, it seems like the problem isn't in the motivation - it's in the methods.

 

My second point has to do with reflecting on why I remain involved in Scouting as an adult. Yes, working with a serving the youth are absolutely a huge part of the reason. But I'd be lying if I said that I didn't have any more selfish reasons for staying involved in Scouting. Honestly, I enjoy camping, and spending time with other Scouters. I enjoy trying new camp cooking recipes and techniques. I enjoy the challenge and the gratification of planning and executing large district- and council-level events. In other words, I have fun doing Scouting things - which I why I choose to serve youth in Scouting, rather than through church groups, youth sports, etc. And, to be honest, if Scouting stops being fun for me, I will find some other channel for my volunteer time.

 

I bet that if all of the other committed adults are honest with themselves, they'd admit something similar.

[momof2cubs 10]

I'm glad you spun this thread KC. I wanted to comment further, but didn't want to go off topic on Ann's thread.

 

Here's a quick story: A couple of months ago, I was sitting at the committee meeting and we were talking about popcorn goals. Now, I freely admit that I LOATHE popcorn fundraising. So I admit my attitude towards this particular Cub necessary evil stinks. However, the popcorn kernell was talking about some pack in the area that had raised $18,000 in popcon last year. Everyone was oohing and aahing and then she said that it was because ONE KID had sold about $10,000 of it. So, stunned, I go: "huh? HOW???". Turns out his parents own a business and bought the $10K of popcorn to use as corporate gifts and wrote off the whole thing. Everyone was SO impressed and wished we had a kid like that in our pack. I was LIVID. I said, and just what exactly did that kid learn? That mommy and daddy are gonna buy his way into everything?? Because you just KNOW that kid got all kinds of accolydes (sp?) for selling the popcorn while the kid that struggled and worked his butt off going door to door to get $1,000 worth was completely outshined. While everyone was trying to justify this, I said: "Why are we here?" Hums and haws. "WHY are we here?", I asked again.

 

And that's what everyone has to ask themselves. And if I cannot be honest with others, at least I have to be honest with myself and admit it when I am not acting in the best interests of the boys.

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

I admit I get more meaning, satisfaction, and fun from Scouting than I do from my job. So yeah just like any service you get back more than you give in.

 

Working with the boys keeps you young. The lows can be pretty frustrating but the highs are great!

 

I think that good folks who honestly think that "it is all about the boys" can disagree on a whole range of issues.

[Basementdweller 608]

KC

 

So what if the district scouters aren't planning anything????? No camporees well in three years, no cub day camp, no district cub events or boy scout events....not in the last year. You show up to roundtable and they stand around the lobby in their little groups drinking coffee and telling inside jokes.

 

The district raises money, but I am not sure for what??? Coffee at round table? We don't do anything at the district level that requires money.

 

Yet year after year they award them selves at the district awards dinner. They charged $15 a head for the dinner and we had to bring the side dishes.

 

So are they in it for the boys?????

 

It is the DE's Job. I am not going to quibble semantics or intent. Ours is all about the dollars and his numbers.....You will never see or hear from him till he wants money, apps or both. Our district is dead, the first nail in the coffin was when the DE said their will not be any free events. Any multiple Pack events in the District must have council permission and you must charge a fee.

 

 

KC your district and council are luck.......Me, not so much. I tried to volunteer a couple of times at the district level, ahhh no. The sad thing is I have been asked to staff IOLS and NYLT in a neighboring council. I am going to help out, I have replaced my home council strip on my uniform with the neighboring councils strip. A couple of the boys have done the same as well.

 

It maybe a case of the grass is greener, but I don't think so, the planning meetings I have attended lack the nonsense or posturing I get at home.

 

 

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

Opps I guess I missed the point. Sorry. Wont be the last time.

[KC9DDI 11]

BD - I think you miss my point. I'm certainly not trying to defend anyone's bad behavior, and I'm definitely not defending your specific district.

 

All that I'm saying is that 1) Often (but not always), accusations of not "being in it for the boys" are both inaccurate, and somewhat arrogant. 2) None of us are in Scouting only for the boys - and that's OK.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Just as KC9 suggests, I find Scouting personally rewarding. And I look for ways to make it fun and rewarding for parents and other adults too, not just youth.

 

As an example of that effort, I encouraged a wine tasting activity after a Pack Committee meeting once upon a time.

[SR540Beaver 116]

Good post KC! When I got involved in scouting as an adult back in the spring of 2003, it was for one boy, my son. That very soon grew to include all the boys I came into contact with. My son Eagled in December of 2010 and aged out in February of 2011. All my friends and family just assumed that when he aged out, I'd be done. Not by a long shot. I stay in for two reasons, the boys and because I enjoy it. When I cease to enjoy it, I'll retire. But for now, it gives me purpose and the main thrust of that purpose is the boys. I suppose I might be one of those that some people would dismiss as not being in it for the boys. Beyond being a unit scouter, I've done things at the district and council level like being OA Chapter Adviser, Jambo ASM, IOLS staff, WB staff and coming this year, NYLT course director. There could be people that say I do it for my own glory or for beads or maybe a District Award of Merit, but I don't. I do it for the boys.

 

When I was a kid, I had a great dad. But beyond my dad were men who gave of their time to be Sunday School teachers, church youth group leaders, coaches, scout leaders and employers that I learned a lot of valuable lessons from. There is one man in particular who was my baseball coach in first grade, then my Cubmaster and later a youth leader in my church who I think of each time I put on my beads. He was an SM as well, but he could never talk me into joining Boy Scouts after Cubs. Yet he remained in my life thru church and made a real difference. It wasn't too long after I got involved as an adult in scouting that the realization hit me that I had come full circle. That I was the adult giving my time and there were boys in my charge who I was making a difference to. That has never left me. So when I do a scouting job like staff WB where I am not hands on directly with boys, I understand that the job is a multiplier. Working in my troop, I can influence the life of 50 scouts. Staffing WB, I can influence the lives of 48 participants who take what they learn back to their units where they influence the lives of hundreds of scouts. Having staffed 4 WB's and 2 Jambos, that number is closer to a thousand youth.

 

The folks who think that scouters who do the district and council work aren't in it for the boys, just don't get how everything you do in scouting eventually filters down to the boys. At least that is what I believe.

[skeptic 1001]

Years ago, I was honored at Chawanakee with selection for their "Pioneer Hike". It is sort of similar to some OA traditions, and related to their camp tribe, as well. Anyway, one of the things asked of the honorees was to write their thoughts in a log book after the overnight. Following is what I wrote; and it seems to kind of fit here.

 

Pioneer Hike

(8-04-83)

 

 

 

 

Reflecting on the scouting way,

while set alone within the wood;

I saw the boy that once was me

who sought to grow, be understood.

 

But now its someone else's son

whose youthful zeal rings through the trees,

who looks to Me to understand,

to see the way He sees.

 

Thus, the cycle has come around,

the scouting boy became a man;

and what he learned within his youth,

he returns, the best he can.

 

 

 

Camp Chawanakee, B.S.A.

Shaver Lake, Calif.

8-5-83

 

 

 

[desertrat77 1144]

Skeptic, that was superb...captured perfectly. Thanks for sharing with us.

[qwazse 4348]

m2c - You would be surprised the number of folks who have potential to make $10k purchases of popcorn, but don't. It's hard to judge at a distance if mom and dad were the sole movers and shakers in that deal, or if jr. asked dad if he could sell popcorn. Our kids weren't allowed to solicit at either mine or my wife's office, so we were grateful to the one dad in our den who could and did do something like this.

 

Maybe Mom and Dad were so touched by how much the den did for their boy that making popcorn the corporate gift (instead of the usual gift certificate inside some neutral festive card) was the least they could do FOR THE BOYS.

 

Your district should have a pizza party for the top 5 sellers, so the boy who hit the streets gets a chance to meat the boy who "leveraged" his family assets. The latter might need a helping hand from the former some day. (In a family business, there is no true write-off. Spending capital on edible biofuel decreases the value of your company. That 10k today will no longer gain value and be counted in the boy's trust fund.)

 

You do have a point, that all eyes can be on the one big donor to the exclusion dozen who earned only 1/10th as much. It's good to remember that 12 times $1000 > 1 times $10,000. It's even better to remember that 12 times $1000 + 1 times $10,000 is even greater.

[momof2cubs 10]

qwaze, that all depends on the net income of the business. While it *could* be argued that the $10K was donated instead of being invested on something else (i.e. a trust fund or a capital investment in the company, I could also argue that they expensed it out. In other words, it is possible that they would have had to pay taxes on say, 110K worth of net income and instead they had to pay taxes on $100K worth of net income. Nothing illegal about that, but that's not at all the point I was trying to make.

 

The point I am trying to make is that people that use their offices and other resources to fund raise on the behalf of their children are often praised for their efforts. And that is just FINE. However, the child did nothing to fund raise. There MAY have been a child that busted his butt going door to door and setting up a table outside of Wal Mart that did not received the same recognition because his numbers are lower. While I am almost certain that the child of those people got all kinds of rewards.

 

Yet another reason I LOATHE pop corn sales. It's all about the kid that has the better adult resources instead of the one that works his butt off.

[Get Outdoors 15]

Basement and I need to get together for a cup of something sometime. I think we've encountered some of the same BS garbage and we might see things from the same perspective.

 

From my perspective:

90% of leaders/members at the unit level are in it for the boys. The other 10% are in it for their own son's advancement (Eagle!)

 

At the District level less the 50% are in it for the boys. 30% are in it to remain in scouting and hang out with like minded friends, the remaing 20% are in it to look important. You can spot them by the amount of "awards" they wear on their uniforms. We have about 80 scouters on our district commitee, The same 20 people are the ones we see doing district events, helping with training, take charge of a roundtable topic. We never see the others in the trenches. All the while we have units that postpone trips due to not having enough leaders, we have scoutreach troops that can't do alot of things because the don't have enough help, we get emails just before a camporee looking for help to "man a station". But when district is giving out awards, or there's a adult event that involves food, they come out of the woodwork.

 

At council; 10% are in it for the boys. The other 90 are in it for the paycheck. Someone close to me (also an Eagle Scout) spend a good number of years employed as a DE. As many of you know his main job was to raise money. Due to the fact that a good percentage of his salary was based on commissions, he made a very nice living. He quit being a pro-scouter and took a large cut in income because he couldn't stand being around coworkers that didn''t have a clue about what scouting was supposed to be about. In his office, the scout law did not apply. If council is in it for the boys, what has council done for you in the last year that didn't involve charging or asking you for money?

 

I've made a promise to myself, when it's time for me to stop working directly with a unit, I will not serve district of council unless there's a posative outcome directly to a young person. I don't want to become one of those people this is not in it 100% for the boys.

 

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Hello Get Outdoors,

 

Heh, heh! I think you do have a kindred spirit in Basement Dweller!

 

As I've said before, I don't blame people who have negative experiences with their district or council for being bitter about it. I might well be discouraged in the same way.

 

 

[Basementdweller 608]

Recruiting night was out of the Packs pocket book.

 

Scheduled our own boy talks

 

We made yard signs and our own flyers

 

The DE would show up at and collect the apps and money......

 

I understand that not all districts are like this......but this is my world

 

 

So what I am hearing is that MOST the money we collect in the district goes toward the DE's salary.. And the DE works on commission, that explains most of his behaviors then.