Tools of the Trade - Methods of Scouting

[BrentAllen 10]

"...Scouters push uniforming so hard...."

 

This is what I can't understand - why does uniforming have to be pushed so hard to be successful? A Troop is going to have a uniform culture - it is going to be established and followed. That culture may be full uniform or it may be waist-up or some other derivative. Troops that are full uniform have that culture, and it is followed just as easily as the waist-up culture. I think some here think that full uniform Troops are constantly fighting a battle to keep the boys in uniform - that simply isn't true. It is a culture, an acceptable practice that has become part of the Troop experience, and the boys just do it.

 

I guess a Troop that has a waist-up culture will find it hard to change that to a full uniform expectation. But if you do make that fight and get it changed, the fight ends. Leaders allow that culture to be set, it doesn't just happen. A new SM coming into an existing Troop has to deal with the existing culture, but he either accepts it or changes it.

 

Uniforming may be determined in some areas by socio-economic factors, but most of the time it isn't. As an example, here in Dunwoody there are 4 Troops in churches on the same road, all located within 3 miles of each other. These boys go to the same schools, live in the same neighborhoods. Two of the Troops are full uniform, two are hodge-podge, mostly waist-up with jeans, camo cargo shorts, etc. Why is that? This isn't an economic issue. It is the expectations set by the Troop.

[Beavah 205]

This isn't an economic issue. It is the expectations set by the Troop.

 

Of course it is, eh? Even when it's an economic issue that's the case. In a lower economic area, a troop can still manage full uniforming, if that's how it chooses to allocate its resources. Either with funds goin' to uniforms instead of to somethin' else or with volunteer time goin' to da uniform bank instead of somethin' else.

 

How each unit and its adults spend resources (including time and energy) is a culture thing, just like BA suggests. Some units have a real culture of youth leadership and patrol method. Some units have a real culture of outdoor adventure, others don't. Culture is generally defined by da things yeh choose to prioritize without a second thought. If uniformin' is a cultural priority, then folks will prioritize spendin' time and money on uniform instead of rain gear or havin' separate patrol gear or driving 5 hours for da climbing weekend. Even da most well off troop doesn't have the time and resources to prioritize everything.

 

When done right, da culture derives from the Aims, both da BSA's and the CO's, so that da things that are prioritized are the ones that matter. And those should be different between units. Practically speakin', though, it comes mostly from da adult leaders and where they want to spend their time and energy. Troops with uniform-focused leaders develop uniform-focused cultures. Troops with outdoor-focused leaders develop outdoor-focused cultures. So ideally, a troop has to choose its leaders to match its Aims, so that the troop develops an Aims-focused culture instead of gettin' bogged down in individual methods.

 

This is where I find many troops screw up, eh? They get caught up in advancement, the method, and they never really focus on what they want to achieve through advancement. "We want to get boys to Eagle" or "We want to make First Class in a year". That's what leads to badge mills. Or they get caught up in patrol method "300 feet" or "patrol yells" but not what they want to achieve through patrol method. Often, when pressed, da Aims are a made-up afterthought rather than their first thought. Uniforming is a lot like that, eh? With a wide range of post-hoc justifications like "esprit de corps" or "economic leveling", even though da unit never talks about spirit or economic leveling in how they use the other methods, or how they would change uniforming to better achieve those things.

 

Da best units don't ever say "we're a full uniform troop", or "300 feet", or "we get lots of boys to Eagle" because those are just methods. They instead talk constantly about Aims, eh? What they want boys to develop. They talk about character and what that means and fitness and citizenship and what they want boys to really leave scouting with. And then they and da kids constantly fiddle with all the methods to keep doin' a better job on the Aims.

 

Beavah

 

 

 

[BrentAllen 10]

Beavah,

I guess I missed that part of my training where they told us we would only be able to prioritize a few of the methods. IMO, the best Troops make a priority of all the methods to achieve the Mission.

 

"Even da most well off troop doesn't have the time and resources to prioritize everything."

Sorry, I disagree. The SM who is trying to build the best Troop in his Council knows he needs all parts working to reach his goal. Using your house and tools analogy, the SM knows he needs the best in everything to produce the best product on the market. And maybe that is the rub, not many SMs have that as their goal. They are happy building duplexes or affordable housing. Are they doing their best? I guess only they can answer that.

 

I guess I was fortunate to grow up in a very strong Troop, and fortunate to get a copy of the 3rd Ed. SMHB and read Green Bar Bill's charge to the new SM before we started our Troop. When I read the text, it just made sense to me and I didn't think there was any other way to build a Troop. Some of the wording is dated, but the message is clear:

 

"The Troop we organize here must be one of the finest and most active Troops ever started. It must measure up with the best Troops in the Council. Every Scout in it must be right on the job all of the time to be the best kind of a Scout he can. Ours must be a winning team in the great game of Scouting!

...

Here's one more point - the real price of membership in this Troop will be unfailing attendance at its meetings, and steady progress in all the things that make a Scout 'Prepared.' If I put my own time into the activities of this Troop I shall certainly expect you to do your part with equal faithfulness. Is that plain - and fair?"

 

I wish I had a dime for every Scouter who told me I couldn't build a Troop on that premise, or expect Scouts to wear the uniform. Other "conventional wisdoms" I've heard, and turned out to be false in our Troop - "Scouts won't go to Summer Camp after attending for 3 years." Or "once a boy hits high school, you won't see him much anymore." I guess it all depends on what type house you have in mind when you start building.

 

 

[hicountry 20]

Not limiting this to just uniforms, there are enough of those threads elsewhere. Brent, I envy you, if you knew me, I really wanted to get where you are at, I just retired as SM after 5 years (now on committee to be there for new SM but not to be in his way). I was beyond burnend out by my seconf year and had it at the begining of year 3 where I planned to drop. My wife pointed out to me that all the work that was done to turn around the troop was mostly in place and it was time to just enjoy the troop becasuse the boys were and the parents loved how our troop was going. Something was still gnawing at me, I did recharter for year 4 (and year 5 after that) and it was other adult leaders who helped me by pointing it out...it was my expectations. I still wanted the boys to fundraise and make it on their own steam I wanted to improve uniforming (not full uniforming but a step up) I wanted to see the boys do more as patrols and on their own. Things got to a point where no further progress was being made on these initiatives I wanted to see more leadership and more boy led than I had managed things to get to. Others tried to, many different tools and approaches but we hit a point where things stuck. I finally learned to not be so absoilute about evey aim and method but to start enjoying how well the troop had improved since I took over, I was burning myself out trying to acheive things that were not going to be. I relaxed and enjoyed myself the last 2 years as SM. The new SM wants to further improvements in the same areas I wanted, maybe with a new SM and more fresh blood in the scout ranks he can accomplish it, I am there to assist. If I stuck to absolutes of maintaing high standards on all aims and methods instead of prioritizing and comprimising where it made sence I would have dropped out from frustration long ago.

[Beavah 205]

BrentAllen, I don't disagree with yeh. That seems da right approach for you and your unit. Even one that I encourage in others, eh?

 

But then, by your own admission, you're in a very highly resourced area, with a very highly resourced troop. And yeh seem to talk with great passion about some methods (uniforming, advancement, one or two others). Ol' Bill was quite da advocate for outdoors and patrol method, but yeh don't quite show Kudu's passion for those things. We all make choices about where our hearts and emphases lie.

 

Now, if I were your commish, I might be talkin' with yeh a bit more about Aims, eh? Uniforming, advancement, and some of da others can be great tools, so long as yeh know what you're trying to build. I'd chat with yeh over coffee or a campfire and see if I could get yeh to talk about kids instead of methods. Kids, and where they're at, and what you'd like to see 'em become and how you'd like to help 'em grow. What are your Aims for kids? What are your CO's Aims? The parents'?

 

Then, even though yeh live in a highly-resourced area, I'd at least take a look at resources. Human, particularly. Do yeh have the staff that shares the vision for kids? Are there fears and hangups that get in the way of stuff like independent patrol outings? That push toward token advancement? Jblake had your zeal for da youth leadership method, but didn't have the human resources to make it work. Zeal has its traps, especially if it's not focused on Aims.

 

Da other half of the human resources side is local youth demographics, eh? If yeh live in an area with a lot of youth, odds are yeh can operate in a way that pushes out any kids yeh don't want or who don't respond to da methods you've chosen. But if yeh don't have that same large pool of youth, yeh have to go farther toward meetin' them where they're at, rather than havin' them come to where you're at.

 

But da biggest thing is kids and Aims. Sounds like you're doin' fine on program and da methods you've chosen, but I'd want to hear yeh talk more about boys. And then maybe pick da methods to suit the boys, rather than vice versa.

 

Beavah

 

[BrentAllen 10]

Beavah,

I could talk about the others all day long - it's just not as defined as the others.

 

Outdoors

Our oldest boys are freshmen in high school, just turning 15. We have 8 of them. Nearly all have been to Summer Camp 4 years, and will go for their 5th camp this year. Most have been to two HA Bases, a 10-day Northern Tier Trek covering 106 miles as 13 year-olds, and down to Sea Base last year. They are heading out to Montana (MOHAB) for a backpacking trip in the Rockies this summer, a couple of hours south of Glacier National Park. They will finally get to go to Philmont in 2012.

Many of these boys will hit 100 nights of camping this year. Most have been to NYLT, or are attending this summer (we have 5 Scouts attending NYLT this summer). All are very active outside of Scouting. SPL Owen runs Crosscountry in the fall, marches in the high school band, swims on the high school and neighborhood swim teams, runs on the high school track team (mile, 2-mile, poll vaults), earned his ARC Lifeguard over Christmas break, and is going on our church youth mission trip to Toronto this summer. High GPA student in the gifted program, taking AP classes. Life Scout. OA member, ceremony team. He is typical of the Scouts we attract.

 

My son is part of that group, runs XC, marching band, been to NT, SB, NYLT. Along with others in the Troop, he has been on a 4 day/ 3 night canoeing trip in the Okeefenokee Swamp, a 4-d/ 3-n backing trip on Cumberland Island. Going to MOHAB this summer, Philmont next year. 90 nights camping to date. 100 miles hiking, which includes 50 miles of backpacking. Life Scout, OA member, ceremony team.

 

We have over 50 Scouts - do you want me to tell you about every single one of them?

 

We have had well over 90% of our Troop attend Summer Camp every year. That is 90% of all our boys, not just the ones some Troops consider "active." We plan, provide and cook our own meals (by patrol) at Summer Camp - the boys' decision. Every patrol has their own gear for regular camping trips, and an additional large cooler and foodbox for Summer Camp. We are usually the only Troop in camp cooking our own meals - that is out of 35 - 40 Troops in camp each week. PLC meetings every month, set up and scheduled by the SPL. The Troop meets every Tuesday, except for the week of July 4 and around Christmas. We don't take one week off for a PLC meeting each month - it is held on a different day. Elections held every 6 months. TLT held every 6 months.

 

We NEVER form ad hoc patrols. We've had one trip where one first-year Scout was the only one who could make it in his patrol(band conflict, and most of our Scouts are in band), and he went by himself - bought his food, prepared his meals and cleaned up. He had a great time in his own patrol. We never do any Troop cooking or have adults cook any meals for the Scouts. We never plan their meals or buy their food. The patrols do it all themselves. Some patrols are holding meetings outside of Troop meetings, something I am strongly encouraging.

 

Our annual calendar is planned by the PLC. Our trips run from the Camporee in March, with the new Crossovers, to easy skills-based trips in April and May, on to Summer Camp in June or July, to a river or lake trip in August, to backpacking in the fall (usually on the AT). This gives the new Scouts time to get some skills and acquire backpacking equipment. Winter camping in December, usually caving in January, and a big, advanced trip in February over the holiday weekend.

 

We don't have any Eagles yet, but have 5 at Life. No FCFY for us - our goal is to get all of our boys to FC by their second December in the Troop, which would be 21 months after crossing over. Many make it before then, but a good number take 18 months or so.

 

We have a Scribe who takes attendance at every meeting, noting who is in uniform and who isn't for the Honor Patrol competition. We have a Bugler who plays reveille and taps if he can take his trumpet on the trip. We also have a Quartermaster (he has keys to the trailer), Historian, Troop Guides, Instructors, Librarian, Den Chief, Chaplain's Aid, and an OA rep. Three of our 15 year-olds have performed nearly every crossover ceremony in our district as member of the OA ceremony team this year.

 

We have a very active program and ask a lot of our Scouts. This is the type of Troop I grew up in. I try to scare away those that don't really want to be there. We are now at 52 Scouts, and I have 3 more wanting to visit. Our retention rate is very high. In 3 1/2 years, we have had 5 boys quit Scouting, 1 moved to Memphis (and is moving back, going to Summer Camp with us) and 1 moved to another Troop which fit his schedule better. I never recruit from other Packs, but I've had boys join our Troop from other Packs. We are quickly outgrowing our meeting room and getting too big, too quickly. I used to say I didn't care about size, I only cared about quality. Now I care about size - about getting too big.

 

We have a full trained committee and 4 fully trained ASMs. We have two 14-passenger church buses that we take on our trips, reducing the number of adults who need to drive and attend.

 

We don't have a UC; I'm the District Commissioner. What else do you want to know? I'm sure you will find something to nit-pick, so go ahead.

 

Edited to add 3 of our 15 year-olds have completed Wilderness First Aid, and 4 have earned the Aquatics National Outdoor Award. 8 have earned the Mile Swim badge. 22 are currently ARC CPR/AED certified.(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

[Beavah 205]

Yah, BrentAllen, that's a lot of stuff about one or two more methods that yeh seem to have interest in and many fine accomplishments, eh? I commend yeh for those. And it's nice to be in a highly resourced area with a lot of youth, but yeh seem like you're doin' a great job makin' use of those resources to their fullest.

 

But there's not a thing there about Aims, eh?

 

So I'm not sure how you or your CO are really evaluatin' what you're doing. Or rather, I think yeh might be evaluatin' off methods and outward appearances.

 

We all have to be careful not to confuse Methods for Aims, eh? Character's an inward thing, as are fitness and citizenship. Accomplishments, badges, and gear are nice and all, but they're not why we're here.

 

If I were just jawin' with yeh around a half-dozen campfires or so late at night, I'd try to draw yeh out on kids and Aims some more. And then, when the time seemed right, mention that da methods yeh seem to talk about least are Adult Association, Personal Growth, and Values. That mentoring bit that's most focused on kids and aims and da internal side of things, rather than achievements and the external side of things.

 

Just to plant a seed, nothin' more.

 

Best to yeh, and thanks for everything you're doin' for the lads in your program.

 

Beavah

 

[Eagledad 2785]

>>The $64,000 question is why do these units exist, and others can't pull it off. Weak-kneed leaders is my answer. SMs are so afraid of losing boys if they ask them to wear the uniform or show up and participate.

[BrentAllen 10]

Beavah,

I knew you wouldn't let me down!

 

Those other methods - we gave up on them. We are bringing in a bunch of sofas and drink machines so the boys can sit around like couch potatoes and play video games. Adult Association? No need, just letting them go with the Lord of the Flies. Character? Our motto is "Just don't get caught" or "Just don't get caught in our Troop t-shirt." Aims? Who needs them? We are just a camping club, can't you tell?

 

Sorry, if you want to see how we are delivering the promise of Scouting and achieving the Mission, you are going to have to haul your pot belly down here and talk to the boys individually.

 

BTW, are you actually affiliated with a unit? If not, when was the last time you were? I never hear you talking about how you are achieving the Aims, so you must be doing a terrible job. (smiley face)

[Kudu 186]

Beavah writes:

 

Yah, BrentAllen, that's a lot of stuff about one or two more methods that yeh seem to have interest in...But there's not a thing there about Aims, eh?

 

In a "radical" Outdoor Method Troop like Brent's, the Aims take care of themselves. That is how Scouting is supposed to work.

 

Beavah writes:

 

We all have to be careful not to confuse Methods for Aims, eh? Character's an inward thing, as are fitness and citizenship.

 

Scouting is no longer popular because we now presume to measure that which can not be measured (the Scouts' "inward things"), and we dumb down to the Den Leader level that which we SHOULD measure (Physical Distance -- The "Game" of Scouting is based on Physical Distance).

 

If a Scoutmaster makes a radical Outdoor Patrol Method his ONLY aim, the "Three Aims" will follow:

 

BrentAllen might disagree with the following because he probably believes that the "Eight Methods" all have equal value, but I believe there is a practical reason why he seems to concentrate on the Outdoor Method:

 

Character: When a Patrol or Troop ventures away from the comforts of Webelos Den Leader camping and into the wilderness, it is the raw forces of nature which mold character. A small comment from an adult or older Scout goes a long way.

 

Fitness: Well, duh. Scouting was designed around challenging Journeys and Expeditions, not indoor chin-ups.

 

Citizenship: Baden-Powell's "Citizenship" is about the sweaty, small-team cooperation that a "radical" outdoor program demands. Green Bar Bill referred to this backwoods-cooperation as "A Real Patrol."

 

Just like the "Three Aims," the Six Fake Methods of Scouting are all really just the natural outcomes of a radical Outdoor Patrol Method:

 

Uniform: It is usually the indoor boys who object to the Uniform. In a High Adventure Troop the Uniform is simply an expectation. It is a non-issue in the same way that the uniform is a non-issue in Little League teams that concentrate on the basics.

 

Adult Association: An adult's advice carries a whole lot more weight at the end of an exhausting day of backpacking or paddling because he walks the walk. Adult Association is a natural product of a "radical" outdoor program.

 

Ideals: The Ideals are designed to be practiced in the backwoods where they are practical, not "idealistic."

 

Advancement: In Baden-Powell's program, the last requirement of every rank is a significant backwoods "Journey" or "Expedition" of increasing difficulty. Each and every requirement for each and every badge is either an outdoor skill or a public service skill. The BSA's schoolwork badges, justified by focusing on the so-called "Three Aims" of Scouting (being judged by other boys' parents, chin ups, and the three branches of government), are what B-P defined as the very opposite of Scouting's method. Perhaps Green Bar Bill's big discovery was that if you offer a "radical" Outdoor Patrol Method, some Scouts will do schoolwork.

 

Personal Growth: Well-meaning progressive crap from the 1970s. Personal Growth is a natural outcome of a good program. There is NO specific "Personal Growth" technique that can not be classified under one of the other "Methods."

 

Leadership Development: In a "radical" Outdoor Patrol Method Troop, Scouts take elections more seriously. They vote for their real outdoor leaders.

 

Beavah writes:

 

stuff like independent patrol outings?

 

I am curious about that as well. Independent Patrol Outings are central to the Patrol Method as defined in Hillcourt's 3rd edition of the Handbook for Scoutmasters. If not Independent Patrol Outings, why not at least Baden-Powell's 300 feet between Patrols (if only as an experiment)?

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games/index.htm

(This message has been edited by Kudu)

[SeattlePioneer 144]

I've been reading a lot here about "half uniforming," or uniforming from "the waist up,"and Brent Allen objects to that as being hopelessly slack when one can just choose to adopt full uniforming as a standard.

 

But I what about units that are only fully uniformed from the ankles up? Wouldn't they be slack, too?

 

I would be interested to know if Brent's Troop is fully uniformed or just from the ankles up! Are official Scout socks as much a part of the uniforming standard as the uniform blouse?

 

 

[BrentAllen 10]

SP,

Turn to page 33 in the current BS HB. You can read the answer to your question there.

 

Also, for our Honor Patrol competition, Scouts must have their handbook to be considered in uniform.

 

Kudu,

Thanks for typing out a response I really didn't want to spend time on. If there was ever one statement you made that I 100% agree with (and couldn't say better), it is the following:

 

"If a Scoutmaster makes a radical Outdoor Patrol Method his ONLY aim, the "Three Aims" will follow."

 

Character? The character I want to see is the Scout who is cook for his patrol for breakfast dragging himself out of his warm sleeping bag at 6:45 AM in 20 degree weather to do his job for his mates. Or the PL at the Camporee who would rather let his new Scouts participate in the events and have fun than make them sit back and watch so they have a better chance at winning. Or the older Scout who sees a younger boy struggling on a backpacking trip, so he carries some of that Scout's load to help him. Or the boys who don't first go congratulate the Scouts who got tapped out, but instead go give a kind word to those who didn't. Or boys who make mistakes and own up to it rather than either lie about it or try to blame others. The rest of these gifts from our program I will keep to myself.

[qwazse 4353]

I guess what I like about Venturing and OA programs is the culture clash that is inevitible when youth A and youth B discover their respective troops have not really emphasized a particular method or another ...

 

"You mean you really are excited about silver epaulets?"

"You actually shop and cook for your crew?"

"Woa! You have Mr./Mrs. ___ on speed dial?" [Or, whatever they call it these days.]

"Wait, you're going hiking AFTER SUNSET????"

"You'd rather camp by yourself than with another patrol in your troop?" (B.T.W., that'd be one of my boys. We perpetually ad hoc.)

 

So, whatever your position (pick-and-choose, prioritize, in-for-a-penny-in-for-a-pound), make sure your boys get some exposure to other units so you can hear from them which method needs to be ramped up in your unit.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

>

 

 

 

Yes, a Scoutmaster who has decided that it is HIS goal to have the BEST troop in the council, with the MOST Eagles, the BEST uniforms and so on is going to have a rigorous program of adult leadership to set and carry out those goals.

 

If you are letting the Scouts decide their own goals and priorities, they will probably lack the skills and experience to be the BEST in the council on everything, or perhaps on anything.

 

So which is the most important --- being the BEST in the Council or giving your Scouts the opportunity to really lead their patrols and troop?

 

Sounds like a very revealing comment, Brent Allen.

 

 

[Eamonn 61]

I have at times pondered if Scouts get the leaders that they deserve?

Or if the leaders get the Scouts that they deserve?

 

Maybe I have been so busy pondering that I haven't always kept the important things like he aims, methods and all that good stuff on the front burner.

Most times we are so busy doing whatever it is that we are doing that we tend to take it for granted that the important stuff is falling into place.

 

I know that I have at times been viewed by some forum members as a bit of a Book Thumper!

Sure enough I don't make any bones about the fact that I see myself as being very much of a traditionalist when it comes to Scouts and Scouting.

I do believe we are an outdoor organization.

The outdoors is really our classroom and is where our Scouts learn the most about Scouting skills along with a great many life lessons that do help them become better people and better citizens.

Lads who join a unit that I'm deeply involved with don't get very much out of their Scouting experiences if they don't participate in the outdoor program.

In fact it doesn't take very long for them to find out that they don't belong.

But there have been times when a number of Scouts have been busy with other commitments and interests which have got in their way of participating. For the most part this hasn't altered or changed the direction of the unit, just the time spent by the individual Scout.

Scouting is and always has been a uniformed organization.

Lads who join a Troop /Ship that I have led understand this from the get go.

I have never said that uniform from the waist up is acceptable. I have never tried to change the official uniform.

We have as a unit looked at when the uniform is to be worn or not worn.

Scouts have at times for a lot of various reasons attended meetings when the uniform should have been worn, with one.

They know and are aware that not being in uniform is not a hanging offense and while no one is going to make a big deal about it, uniform is something that is expected.

The PLC (Quarterdeck) is the body that decides what we do.

Sometimes I have had a wonderful group f Scouts who are full of ideas and have the capability of seeing projects through from start to finish.

There have been times when the group has needed to learn to do this kind of thing. When this happens I'm OK with helping them while over time allowing them to take on more and more of the planning and responsibility.

All Scouts have the opportunity to advance. Some see advancement as a very important part of why they are in Scouting, some maybe not so much.

I think it's very important that every Scout has the skills needed to be able to fully participate in the outdoor program, which leads to more exciting and challenging activities.Many of these activities do fall in line with other requirements, which is fine and dandy. But other than finding the MBC for a merit badge that a Lad has an interest in, he is very much on his own.

I have never liked the idea of everyone in a Patrol being the same age or the New Scout Patrol. Much of what being a P/L is all about is helping and educating the younger Scouts in the Patrol. Working with and teaching other Scouts gives leadership real meaning as does being an active member of the PLC.

One of the most wonderful gifts that we the adults in Scouting have is being able to see and watch the personal development of the Scouts we know.

Being able to watch the simple daily good turn grow into more than just helping out at home, seeing the Lad mature and become a more caring young person who is more able to grasp and take on his own understanding of the Oath and Law is our pay day.

Have to admit that when it comes to Adult Association and the ideals, in my book this just kinda happens.

 

There have been times when it seemed that just about every Scout in the Troop was going to end up doing hard time and then there have been times when the entire (Well almost!) seemed to have walked right from a Norman Rockwell painting.

I've dealt with Scouts who have while at summer camp gone on a shop lifting spree -While in full uniform!

Patrols that have organized and carried out truly wonderful Patrol Camps.

 

At the end of the day, we all have times when things seem to be going just great and times when everything seems to be falling apart. -It happens.

But we as the adults do set the culture and the expectations for the Scouts and the Troops that we lead.

Many different Troops set different standards, while these standards might not be the standard that we have, maybe above or below? What ours is. This doesn't necessarily make them better or worse than us.

A lot of the time we don't know what's going on in that Troop or why it is going on?

I've known great looking Troops who are turned out in full uniform with more Eagle Scouts than you can count, who can't tie a square knot.

I've known Troops who look terrible with Scouts who are really trying. The Scouts are having a great time and they are heading in the right direction, they might never get there. But they really are doing their best.

Ea.