Who are the BSA, anyway?

[sherminator505 10]

On another thread, I read one sentence that practically hit me in the head like a 2" X 4":

 

"I have also been told by our professional staff that Scoutmasters cannot be counted on to do whats right."

 

This made me reflect on some of the things I've observed over the years and the discussions I've engaged in over the past few months. It has led me to believe that while the BSA seems to honor its corporate culture above a lot of other things, it seems to be fundamentally confused as to the nature of its organization.

 

In corporate terms, the BSA is not one large corporate body. It is a franchise-type organization, with councils and units within them that are charged with delivering the Scouting program. Strangely, with all its emphasis on leadership theory et al. this fact is too often underemphasized.

 

So what is the role of the professional Scouter? The professional Scouter is concerned mainly with providing the tools to help the various franchises succeed. This does not include making blanket judgments about volunteers like the one above, nor does it entail pushing the training regime they would rather support as opposed to one that would be more specific to the individual volunteer's needs (read WB21).

 

I find that quite a few of my fellow volunteers have become cynical and jaded with regard to BSA's corporate culture, and much of this is attributable to the above. Have you made similar observations, and if so, what would you suggest as a remedy?

[Basementdweller 608]

The BSA is a bunch of Rich white guys in Texas that do what is right for them. When profits are down they change a couple of requirements for rank and sell a bunch of new books or change the uniform to sell more and increase profits.

 

 

I have absolutely no use for DE or SE's. Probably less use for the crew in texas. They have both failed to deliver the goods when asked. Missed boy talks, not returning phone calls, mis spending the boys money on fancy new service centers.

 

We have had 3 DE in the last 2 years all of them horrible. This one should be leaving hear shortly.

 

I no longer believe in the BSA program at the District, Council or National Level. I will continue to work with the Troop, Packs and Crews I am involved with and nothing more.

 

Why is the BSA slipping from being relevant? Poor unskilled volunteers and greed executives.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Would you concede that helping to train the poor unskilled volunteers would be a good idea?

 

Look at what we see here on the Forum, Scouts waiting 3 months on an answer for an Eagle Project, Scouts being told they are not "Eagle Material", scouts being told that they need to wait to age X to take a certain merit badge, scouts not being allowed to advance faster than the Scoutmasters son and a thousand other grieviances that fill these pages.

 

And what do we say to the more over the top situations? Call your DE? Have a conversation with the Council Exec? Yeah, I can see where a professional would get the idea that the scoutmasters can't be relied on to do the right thing, we see plenty of evidence here that they do not do the right thing.

 

Then again, it does seem as though there is a natual barrier between the Professional and the Volunteer. Volunteers at the unit level focus on quality and delivering the Program to the best of their abilities, using what talents they have. The Professional is judged and employment based on expansion and numbers and money. Can anyone see an issue here? Volunteers are supposed to run the program but the Exec COmmittees tend to get filled by guys who dont know the program and are building a resume.

 

It is a puzzlement...

[sherminator505 10]

I agree that there is a barrier. I do not agree that this barrier is either natural or necessary. One thing that the volunteers seem to realize that the professionals do not is that program leads to growth.

 

If you have a program that delivers the Scouting promise, then your membership will grow as a result. So by providing the volunteer Scouter the know-kow to deliver a better program, the professional Scouter is, in fact, promoting growth.

 

The whole training regime needs to be shifted to support this. We don't need to be teaching generic management theory. We need to be getting A LOT more specific to the individual Scouter's needs to deliver a quality program. I don't see a lot of that coming out of National these days...

[Vicki 11]

Reading the posts in this forum, I am so grateful for the professional staff in our council - particularly our Director of Advancement and Training and our Camping Properties Director. The program appears to be alive and well in our neck of the woods, anyway.

 

Bearing in mind nothing is perfect, of course.

 

Vicki

[Abel Magwitch 10]

Having the chance to travel the country now and then, I have had fun visiting other troops from around the country and speaking with fellow volunteers. There are those whose councils' are obviously doing a fine job in serving the Scouts and their volunteer leaders. And I have found those volunteers whose horror stories about their professionals that are similar to what I find in my council.

 

Councils who are located in affluent parts of the country seem to be doing a far better job of serving this so called "volunteer" organization, while other councils in poorer parts of the country seem to be doing things only to benefit the professional staff in making their membership goals. I know it's hard for professionals to make their criticals in certain geographical areas where urban areas are especially hard to do traditional Scouting. Thus what I believe is the reason why some councils have been targeted for cheating on their membership numbers using LFL and other urban programs to simply get names of school kids and register them as members. The professionals in these situations are able to make their criticals, get their promotions yet the actual program suffers as there is no more money to fund the actual program. My council boasts of high membership numbers yet as a long time volunteer, I have witnessed the demise of over 40 Boy Scout Troops alone on my side of town over the past 30 years. The troops are dead yet the membership numbers remain high.

 

I have been told by many young professionals in my council that Scouting is a business. A business for whom? Those making salaries? It is not a business for me, a volunteer leader. I have yet to be paid for over 35 years of service as an adult leader though I do get a kick that in another district across town, the once volunteer leadership is now paid a stipend and the leaders at both unit and district level are called "paraprofessionals".

 

Yes, Scouting has changed a bit since the early 70's. It is my opinion and the opinion of many others that the change from being a volunteer run program for boys to a business practice started with Boy Power 76.

 

I am insulted when professionals and executive board members in my council continue to tell me that this is a volunteer movement, yet the volunteers have little say in anything.

 

Abel(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)

[Abel Magwitch 10]

To OGE - yes it is a puzzlement to think that these volunteers have had obligatory training and some where knots on their uniforms that practically go over their shoulder.

 

I also see a mindset in the volunteer leaders that the professionals are in charge. And in my council, the professionals do in fact say that "they are in charge and they make the rules." They don't like the few oldtimers still around who remember what the program once was.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

I think it is best to avoid generalizations like "this group isn't doing their jobs" or "that group is only in this for (state reason here)." Some people do a good job at what they do, some people don't, and there are many in between. Some do what they do for the right reasons, some not, and some a mixture. Hopefully, in any given place, you get the right mixture of people so that things go the right way. My sense is that the majority of the time in the BSA, things are done right, or mostly right. But it is the nature of a forum like that this that you usually don't hear when things went right, because there's usually little to no motivation to post about things that went right. As the old saying goes, dog bites man is not news, man bites dog is news. BSA can issue 20 new merit badges in a row with good requirements, good manuals, proper timing, etc. etc., but the ones we talk about are the centennial ("historic") MB's which were a colossal foulup. I didn't write very much about how things went with my son's Eagle because I had nothing to complain about, in fact people at both the troop and district level went out of their way to help him. But those kinds of stories don't end up as threads in this forum that go on for more than a year. It's just the way things are.

 

(And yes, I realize I may have made a couple of generalizations in there, but I have tried to qualify them with "usually", "generally", etc.)

 

One more generalization: In my experience, most people in an organization have a tendency to see themselves, or their department or whatever, as the center of the organization, and to see the purpose of the rest of the people in or around the organization to be so that they can do their jobs. This is true in voluntary organizations like the BSA as well as in businesses and other enterprises. I saw this when I was a school board member; every possible constituent group (paid or unpaid, or paying) saw themselves as the center of the universe, the driver of the boat, the straw that stirs the drink, etc. I also saw this many years ago when I worked for a media organization. The people who produced the "content" tended to see themselves as the center of universe, the reason for everybody else to be there, etc. Much to my surprise at the time, the people who sold the advertising saw themselves basically the same way, along the lines of, it's nice that you guys write this stuff to go in between our ads. I think it's just human nature.

[Basementdweller 608]

OGE you can lead a horse to water, but......

 

The level of training needed isn't going to be covered in a weekend or single day.

 

Heck it is hard enough to get everyone trained for their position.

 

 

 

Sherminator......Right by who or what???? The SM's I have been involved with will generally do the best thing for the troop and the scouts. Which is in direct conflict with the DE?

 

 

I have first hand knowledge of DE's abusing lfl funds and registering fictitious scouts and units. And nobody cares, as it turns out everyone already knew what he was doing.

[sherminator505 10]

Basementdweller-

 

That's Abel's quote, and I springboarded off of that because I felt that it reflected a corrosive attitude that *some* DE's seem to have toward volunteer Scouters. There seems to be some disconnect between the volunteers and professionals (as OGE pointed out) to the point that at times it seems we're talking about two different organizations.

[Basementdweller 608]

Have to agree about the two different organizations.

 

I read the stories of great DE, active districts and fantastic camps and dream of such luxuries. I envy those with great councils and Districts.

[AlamanceScouter 10]

My experience as a volunteer is probably different than most other "Scouters". I was a failed DE in the early 90's...was basically invited to find another job due to lack of performance. I went on to a different career and basically forgot about Scouting. Three years ago I was visited by a district level volunteer and the DE at the time and was asked to lead a part of the FOS. I accepted and the next year I was the district finance chair and lead the district's FOS with our new DE. During my time as the finance chair my son was in 1st grade and he came home with the "flier" early in the school year. We got him signed up and I really started learning what Scouting was all about. I signed up to be a DL last Scout year and am going to continue in that role this coming year.

 

I write all of this to say I think I understand it from all sides of the equation. I understand the pressures that professionals are under. I understand the district level volunteer who is trying to make sure his/her campaign for $$ or boys is successful because nobody wants to lead a losing effort. I also understand more than ever now that the Scouting program is WONDERFUL for boys. When done right, meaning lead right, the benefits to young boys and men is not measurable.

 

This is how I see it....Scouting needs good professionals who find a way to balance making their finance and membership goals with supporting their district and unit volunteers. When it comes to program they MUST put the most emphasis on recruiting and retaining the best district level volunteers....i.e, training chairs, roundtable commissioners, etc. If he/she can get the district level volunteers motivated and committed to quality then it will filter to the units.

 

My district is very lucky to have a great DE.....of course this means he will be promoted and leave soon. When I hear other volunteers lament this I tell them that I will hate to see him leave too but the question is "Will he leave it better than he found it?" and I think he will.

[GKlose 24]

When I dropped my son off for his Jamboree contingent departure the other night, I bumped into my former DE. Our council realigned districts and our town was moved out of the district he is covering.

 

We talked about several things, but one thing we did was have a little bit of a laugh about a cantankerous old SM who has been around forever. The DE really likes him, but made some crack about his curmudgeonly behavior.

 

I responded with a "you know, the last several council and district pros have probably said that about him for years." It took a second, but the DE finally caught on.

 

Yes, this guy is a curmudgeon. But he's been in the trenches, probably for 30+ years, delivering the Scouting program (and delivering it well) in his town. Yes, he complains constantly about Scout executives. But they come and go. They're just a flash in the pan. He's the one sticking around, through thick and thin.

 

Guy

[Abel Magwitch 10]

Guy, you nailed it right on the head. That old curmudgeon Scoutmaster; giving the professionals a hard time. Thanks for your thoughtful post.

 

The thing is the professional is a transient. His loyalty is to his job. He will be moving on when he gets promoted to another council. But it is the old loyal SM who the professional is supposed to support. The old SM isnt just complaining; he knows what he needs. He knows how things are supposed to work. The old SM is focused on what the program is supposed to be for the boys. If it werent for serving the boys, there would be no BSA.

 

If there is anything to say about old curmudgeon SMs is that they have been around for a reason they are successful. They are around because their Troop continues to survive and serve boys while other troops have long folded. Their troop has outlived many young DE's who couldn't cut it.

 

Instead of a professional complaining about the curmudgeonly behavior of the old SM, the professional should find out why he has been successful so long. What are his methods? Why do boys continue to join the troop?

 

The old SM has given a lot of his personal time over the years. How many people actually give up part of their vacation to serve boys? And without pay?

 

The old curmudgeon SM should be revered and respected for his long tenure of dedicated volunteer service doing it for the shear joy and being rewarded by seeing boys become fine men.

(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)

[VigilEagle04 10]

I must say, I am glad we have the professional staff we have here at SJAC. I don't know much about our new SE as he just got here. But overall, our executive staff does an excellent job working to supplement our volunteers. They understand the value of volunteers and are there to do nothing but support them and handle the day to day functions of the council.