Audit

[Crew21_Adv 25]

hherifor and fellow Scouters,

 

Greetings!

 

Here are my thoughts.

I'm surprised that a request for audit would come from the DE and COR and not from the parents of the Scouts.

 

If the parents are satisfied with the performance of the program and the stewardship of their funds, they would keep their Scouts in that unit. If they were not satisfied, they would remove their Scouts and take them to another unit or register them as Lone Scouts.

 

I can understand the COR asking for an audit, if they contribute funds towards their Scouting program. (I appreciate the CO/COR's, but I have yet to see a CO that assist financially)

 

 

To comment hherifor question.

 

When hherifor stated he was also auditing the leadership. I expect it would be specifically for the handling of their finances. Otherwise, the Unit Commissioner should be conducting a unit visitation and reviewing their unit self assessment tool and their Centennial Quality Program.

 

Regarding auditing finances.

Most audits for private organization (or community based organizations) are conducted by non-biased financial entities. Locally, our community mandates that all organizations within its jurisdiction will be audited every two years, by a listing of third party auditors (certified accountants).

 

I would expect, for those Scouting units leadership (financial stewardship) that desire their business to be transparent, and also for families that follow the "trust but verify" ideals, they have probably contracted a third party auditor (rather than requesting another Scouter with CPA credentials to audit).

 

I know personally, I would rather contract a third party auditor before asking a peer Scouter to audit my units financial records.

 

References on how to record finances would be in the Troop/Team Record Book, which should be the BSA standard. (other resources may be compatible like the Troopmaster database, but not a BSA standard). The council should also have copies of all Unit Money Earning Applications submitted by the unit. Beyond that, I dont think any other resources are available. I seriously doubt you would find any other examples of a BSA reference of an Audit for a unit.

 

That being said While this Scouter.com forum has members of various backgrounds (Doctor, Bankers, Lawyers, etc) I doubt any accountant that may be present in the forum has conducted an audit of another Scout troop. I don't expect anyone to answer examples of how to conduct a financial audit of a scout troop.

 

I honestly hope that hherifor audit goes well, and no significant errors are found with his/her local troop.

 

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

[Stosh 3452]

Hmmm, an MBA accountant with 25+ years of scouting?

 

Look at the books of a scout troop for any problems? Look at their program?

 

It would seem to me that such a request would not be "odd" but rather quite efficient (aka THRIFTY). Not every accountant knows that much about how troop money is properly spent and surely not every scouter knows how to do a unit assessment.

 

While I hold almost 30 years of scouting experience under my belt, and 3 academic degrees, (and I am blessed that none of them are in skepticism) there are those with far greater credentials that still seek my advice. It's not the degrees and experiences themselves that offer the greatest value, it's how the individual puts them together to offer the greatest value to those around them. Obvious there is a CO and DE that think their choice is wise and it's a wise man that seeks the advice of others before taking on a challenge.

 

Maybe hherifor can multi-task this opportunity. After all that seems to be acceptable in today's world. I would recommend that the dual-focus can lead to doing neither very well (which has been shown to happen), but he can do one and then the other and still do a great job.

 

Stosh

[Eamonn 61]

" The request comes from the Charter Org and the District Executive"

 

Hi hherifor,

Welcome to the forum.

I have to admit to having never heard of a Troop Audit, at least not as you have posted.

 

While I'm sure the DE is a very nice person. I kinda feel he or she might be guilty of over-stepping the mark.

A lot of units do seem to have questions about how the finances are managed.

I can and do see that maybe a CO might want to have someone with some knowledge of Scouting to take a look at what has been going on and what is going on.

But the DE?

At the risk of being totally wrong. (Not for the first or last time, I'm sure!) I think he is out of order getting involved in something like this.

 

While I can see that the CO is able to take whatever steps are needed to sort out the finances and "Fire" any of the adults he takes a dislike too.

The DE has no say, no input, no ... shall we say power? To do a darn thing.

hherifor, if I were you I'd want a very clear detailed picture of what is going on and why? Before I'd get involved in this.

Talk to the SE and the District Chairman, along with the District Commissioner.

My big fear is that the DE is setting you up for something that you really want no part of.

A lot of DE's really have no idea what they are supposed to be doing. I think this might well be the case here.

Good Luck.

Eamonn.

 

 

[FScouter 24]

An audit is going to be difficult without the cooperation of the unit leadership and the chartered organization. You havent said but it sounds like someone with the CO went to the DE with some questions or a problem and the DE suggested an audit to address the questions or problem. But since you havent given much info about the nature of the questions or problem, its a little difficult to respond other than in general terms. I would think the DE would simply ask the district commissioner to pay a visit to the unit and find out what questions they have and help answer them.

 

A few things a commissioner might ask about:

Does the unit have adequate leadership?

Is there a functioning troop committee?

Have the adults completed training for their respective positions, and do they have the guidebooks provided by BSA?

Does the troop committee meet regularly?

Are the youth members advancing?

Are there 3-4 courts of honor each year?

Does the troop camp regularly?

Does the chartered organization support their troop?

Is the COR an active member of the CO?

Does the troop have a PLC, does the PLC plan the troop meetings and activities?

Do the Scouts run the troop meetings?

Is there a troop calendar with events scheduled out 12 months?

Does the troop keep advancement records?

Does the troop have a checking account that requires two signatures?

Does the troop have a budget?

Does the troop have money-earning events to support the budget?

Does the treasurer prepare a monthly income statement and balance sheet which is presented at the committee meetings?

Is the checking account reconciled to the bank statement and to the balance sheet?

Does the treasurer work with and assist the troop scribe?

[Knot Head 10]

I havent done an audit since the 80s when I was in public accounting but off the top of my head Id look for:

 

Receipts for reimbursement. When our troop goes on a campout you have to submit a receipt for food for example. Make sure expenses (checks cut) have receipts.

 

Internal controls. Is the same guy that is writing checks also approving the checks (i.e. checking receipts) and balancing the checkbook? IF the same guy is doing the shopping, writing the checks and balancing the checkbook it would be pretty easy to pad the expenses. This is where the easy fraud would be. If the guy cuts himself a check for $200 for summer camp supplies and says it was for trash bags, soap, rope & odds and ends stuff but there is no receipt thats a red flag. After you get a feel for this you can design audit procedures to look at areas where the internal controls are weak.

 

Contracts. If the troop bought a trailer for $2,000 did they shop around or buy one from the SMs brother in law? If they have contracts for anything such as a storage unit was it an arms length transaction? When they go canoeing do they pay thru the nose to rent canoes from the SMs best friend?

 

Inventory. I would try to do an inventory of troop gear. If the checkbook has outgoing checks that supposedly were for 3 action packers with cook sets, stoves, ovens and the like ask to see the items that were purchased to make sure they actually exist. If there are checks to buy a lot of gear there should be a lot of gear.

 

Fundraisers. If they held a pancake breakfast, who took the cash at the door and was it done in the presence of two unrelated people?

 

A lot of this will depend on what you have to work with. If the troop has a set of books with assets, accounts payable etc. it will be easier than if they just have a checkbook. I doubt you would have been asked to do this unless there was a complaint or a suspicion. Find out what the catalyst was and go from there. Good luck!

 

EDIT - I would not attempt this alone. I would get one or two other CPA's involved. With that the folks in charge would be better off trying to get some local firm to do this during the off season in exchange for a really really nice plaque to hang in the firm's lobby. ;-)(This message has been edited by knot head)

[Bob White 20]

Why would someone who says he has ample credentials to do an audit need to ask a bunch of strangers of whom he has no idea of their creditials, how to do it?

 

Why would someone who says he has ample scouting experience to evaluate a unit need to ask strangers how to do it?

 

It would seem logical that if he was asked to do these jobs because he had the skills and ability to do them, that he would be able to just go do it.

 

Why would he need instructions from anyone, let alone from strangers?

[Stosh 3452]

Probably for the same reason anyone would ask any kind of question on the forum. There seems to be a lot of scouters out there that would like to have a sounding board to bounce things off of, get differing perspectives, and support for ideas they might be floating around.

 

If everyone knew everything there is to know about scouting, surely this forum would become obsolete.

 

I guess there are those out there that just don't know it all. Really there are those out there that don't have an answer for every minute bit of info that BSA has to put out, nor do they have all the answers that come with 100,000 years of combined experience, nor have they had the luxury of being an insider on everything BSA may spout out of their limited communication system.

 

When I post I'm assuming my 2-cents worth just might give another scouter some bit of assistance that they can use in coping with some struggle they might be having.

 

I guess I've never found it necessary to question why they might be asking for help, I just try and help.

 

Stosh

[Bob White 20]

Jblake, I understand why you respond, the questions is why is he asking. He is not asking us about scouting, he is asking us about accounting, a task he says he is amply qualified to do. You would think if he needed a sounding board he would have posted on a forum for accountants.

 

Instead he asked a bunch of scouters whose skills are totally unkown to him to give him tips on a task he tells us he is well qualified to do.

 

I am not asking why people respond, I am asking why if he were qualified would he be asking strangers to suggest to him how to do it. If sommeone asked you to audit an organizations books, and you were qualified and experiencesd in the task, would you go about asking strangers how to do it?

 

"If everyone knew everything there is to know about scouting, surely this forum would become obsolete."

 

I disagree, but if everyone just knew their particular job in scouting certainly this forum's posts would change dramatically.

 

[hotdesk 10]

So I've been reading the posts above mine tonight and I feel that I need to put in a brief comment.

 

Bob White,

 

You are a wise man with a lot of experience and knowledge that makes you very valuable on this forum.

 

HOWEVER, stop asking why this guy is asking for this information. Simply acknowledge that he is asking. Maybe he's doing it because he doesn't have the knowledge or maybe he's doing it just to make sure he covers all the bases.

 

If you feel that he's doing it for the first reason then either decide to offer or not offer advice. If you feel that he's doing it for the second reason decide to offer or not offer advice.

 

Remember that a Scout is helpful and kind. Be polite to posters. Please do not knock them down each time they ask a question.

 

Thanks,

 

hotdesk

[Bob White 20]

Hotdesk

What you and others seem to overlook is that the entire situation is quite absurd.

 

Why did the DE not use the commissioner staff to evaluate the unit's program that would be any DE's first move?

 

Why did the CO not get a CPA to audit the troop books or at least an accountant?

 

Why is a person who says he is amply qualified asking for advice from strangers on a task he should know how to do.

 

Why would the DE and CO pick someone who does not know how to do the tasks he was asked to do.

 

These are important questions.

 

He says he is qualified to do the tasks but he needs us to tell him how to do it??? That is simply not logical.

 

It's okay to have an open mind but it shouldn't be so open that the wind can whistle through. hherifor's posts make no sense.

[belayer_StLouis 10]

The request for audit might just have been a membership audit request. As a DE for 8 years back in the 70's and 80's the commissioner staff did these annually. It is simply an audit checking who is registered with a unit and who a unit thinks is registered. The Commissioner would usually find one or two kids and adults whose membership application hadn't been turned in or filled out and their names weren't on the charter at every untit. It wasn't a painful process and could be done over the phone with the unit's membership chair or committee chair.

[belayer_StLouis 10]

The request for audit might just have been a membership audit request. As a DE for 8 years back in the 70's and 80's the commissioner staff did these annually. It is simply an audit checking who is registered with a unit and who a unit thinks is registered. The Commissioner would usually find one or two kids and adults whose membership application hadn't been turned in or filled out and their names weren't on the charter at every untit. It wasn't a painful process and could be done over the phone with the unit's membership chair or committee chair.

[belayer_StLouis 10]

The request for audit might just have been a membership audit request. As a DE for 8 years back in the 70's and 80's the commissioner staff did these annually. It is simply an audit checking who is registered with a unit and who a unit thinks is registered. The Commissioner would usually find one or two kids and adults whose membership application hadn't been turned in or filled out and their names weren't on the charter at every untit. It wasn't a painful process and could be done over the phone with the unit's membership chair or committee chair.

[Stosh 3452]

No one needs a reason to post on this forum, nor do they need to account to anyone for their posts. Their rationale for doing so is one else's business.

 

As an accountant maybe he needed to know if there is anything specific to scouting that he needs to know that would apply to a scout audit rather than a tax audit. Surely it would be rather stupid to ask such a question to an accounting forum if that be the case.

 

And what seems odd to anyone on this forum shouldn't come as any surprise. I find it very odd that anyone feels it necessary to challenge another person's motives on the forum, challenge their honesty, challenge their expertise, challenge many of those things that scouting stands for as part of a person's character. To me that is a personal attack in it's most basic form. But then we're all entitled to our own opinions, aren't we?

 

Try and remember, the people on this forum generally aren't a bunch of novice Cub Scouts, many of which have life experiences that go way beyond the handbooks, resources, literature, and publications of BSA that can offer insight and assistance that no "book learnin'" can provide. I have often wondered whether those who expound upon "by the book" kinds of answers might be a little lacking in field experience along the way, but that's again, just my opinion.

 

Stosh

[evmori 11]

Interesting request.

 

If sounds like the DE & CO have some concerns as to how a unit is handling their finances & their Scouts & wants a 3rd party to have a look.

 

Unusual request!

 

Maybe this should be done more often.

 

The DE and/or CO would be able to request the financial info they need to have the audit completed and having a 3rd party complete this makes perfect sense.

 

Tough position to be put in, though.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10