Scouting as School...or a Game

[Beavah 205]

 

Recent discussions have had me thinkin' about somethin', and it seems like time to pull it into a different thread. I reckon we all think of Scouting as educational in some way, eh? In that we want kids to learn. A funny thing seems to happen, though, because for most of us, our experience with learning has been school. Certainly that's what da kids think, too. We're all familiar with school.

 

Here's one way of doin' Canoeing MB:

Boy arrives at summer camp. On first night (or in advance), he registers for Canoeing MB Class. The class might have prerequisites (like passing swim test or the outdoor first aid stuff), which if he doesn't have done means he can't register. Adult MB counselor prepares syllabus and curriculum. Boy shows up at regular time for class. Day 1 adult gives lecture on Safety Afloat. Boy has written homework. Day 2 adult gives lecture on canoe parts, paddle parts, entering and exiting boats. Kids practice as directed. Perhaps by Day 4, adult may have games to play to help practice strokes and such.

 

Adult gives tests. Tests are limited to curricular learning goals (requirements). Kids cram for tests and pass. Kids get diploma for class.

 

Course registration, prerequisites, syllabus, lesson plans, learning goals, homework, tests, lectures, need to "cover" material in a specified time, prefer to have everyone same ability level learning together, once you have diploma you're done. The School Method, eh?

 

Here's a second way of doin' Canoeing MB:

Patrols decide to run some canoe trips. Boy signs up because it sounds like fun. No classes, no lesson plans, no curriculum. Boy learns how to canoe from older boys in his patrol/troop giving him pointers, by watching the older boys, and by canoeing! Boy learns about Safety Afloat by watching and listening to older boys. Boy learns terms not by memorizing them, but by figuring out what "grab the gunwhale" means when an older boy points to it while helping him get back aboard.

 

Over time, a canoe MB counselor watches the boy successfully launch and land a canoe, use the paddle strokes properly, etc. When the boy has learned how to canoe, he'll have demonstrated all the requirements at some point to the counselor, and Presto! will get the badge as an acknowledgment of his ability. By that point, he will have demonstrated each requirement multiple times, and there is no need of creating a either a test or a retest. The boy just knows how to canoe - both da formal "requirements" and all the other tricks and techniques and knowledge that go into canoeing. It will take as long as it takes; there is no schedule.

 

*****

 

Yah, yah, in da BSA program, the first way is permitted but not really encouraged, even though it's very common. The second way is intended, but less common. I reckon that's mostly because schooling is so familiar to adults and kids, eh? We tend to fall back on it. So while da BSA's program clearly leans toward toward the second, traditional scouting approach, its actual program often runs toward the first, more school-like approach.

 

Which way do we think is really Scouting as we want to see it practiced?

 

Beavah

 

[evmori 11]

I'll take the 2nd way Beav! Sounds like way more fun & the results are the same!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[hotdesk 10]

Beavah I'm in charge of Family Life at the district MB College starting on Saturday. With all the requirements that tell a scout to Show, Discuss, and Explain to the Conselor how would you apply your second method to that badge?

[Bob White 20]

The premise of this discussion ingores what scouting is...an educational game. Baden-Powell introduced through scouting a concept of education that was unheard of at that time. The use of the "outdoor Classroom". Scouting from its very beginning was designed as education geared to the character of a boy. A character that Baden-Powell was convinced was built on energy, wondermemnt of nature, a sense of adventure and a vastly undeveloped knowledge of the world around him.

 

Scouting was never meant to be, and is not today, only a game or only a classroom, but an ingenious mix of both, designed by one man and understood and followed by hundreds of thousands of Scout leaders since him... just...evidently...not all of them.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Bob White 20]

As far as the two proposed methods for earning the merit badge..I would choose neither. Neither one follows the Scouting program methods. There are variety of better ways than either of the methods we are offered in the opening post.

 

 

[Beavah 205]

Beavah I'm in charge of Family Life at the district MB College starting on Saturday. With all the requirements that tell a scout to Show, Discuss, and Explain to the Conselor how would you apply your second method to that badge?

 

Yah, good question hotdesk. I think all of the citizenships (family, community, nation, world) and a few of the other required list (personal management) get pretty tough. Family Life is probably the one where you want a parent to be MBC, eh? For the others, it takes some real creativity to work it into the game sometimes. I'd love to hear folks' ideas.

 

Now, for T-2-1 skills, hopefully we don't have to be very creative, eh? If T-2-1 has the right requirements, we should be doin' those things all the time. We should be able to do that stuff the Second Way without any problem, eh? No need to put all the 6th graders together in a class. No need for adult lesson plans and learnin' sets.

 

Fact is, lesson plans and teachin' the First Way is hard. Ask any real teacher. I hear tell it takes you a few times teachin' something that way before you're any good at it at all, and yeh sorta need to have a knack for it on top of that. How many boys have we seen stumble through tryin' to teach a "class?". For that matter, how many adults have we seen drone on? Betcha folks who do that have all kinds of "quality control" steps, eh? Plus those methods were developed for schools with mandatory attendance and such, eh? Where every kid gets taught every lesson in order.

 

Apprenticeship, though, that's a different thing. A boy can show another boy how he does somethin'. A lad can see a tent that ain't quite right and show another how to fix it. A younger boy can watch what his older Patrol Leader does and emulate it without a syllabus. No need for a plan and a "lesson". Not if you've got a Patrol.

 

I reckon that's what BP and Greenbar have been tellin' us through the years. And I reckon that's what da BSA means when it says "A fundamental principle of advancement shall be that the boys' progress is a natural outcome of his activities in the unit." It's learning, fer sure. But it sure ain't a class.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Bob White 20]

"A fundamental principle of advancement shall be that the boys' progress is a natural outcome of his activities in the unit."

 

Nothing in that statement suggests that the activities are not planned. If you wait for learning to happen by happenstance not much 'learnin' is gonna take place.

 

Again you strongly suggest that someone suggested that scout instruction is a sit down and listen kind of learning and no one has suggested that in any post yet except for yours. I do not understand your persistant reference to it.

 

Have you looked at any information regarding Baden-Powell and how he taught scouts? Or how he taught scout leaders to lead the program. Have you ever read the teaching agenda for his Brownsea Island camp? There were even parts that were specifically lecture.

 

B-P used planning in his life in and out of scouting. Do you think his actions as a British spy or as the commander at Mafeking had no forethought, no planning, no goals. To think that the lessons of scouting will just magically happen simply by having a patrol has no basis in logic or in application.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Gold Winger 9]

"Yah, yah, in da BSA program, the first way is permitted but not really encouraged, even though it's very common"

 

I don't know where you get the idea that it isn't encourgaged, that's the standard summer camp model.

 

I think that your second method is limited in scope, at least in the troop arena, because only a few merit badges could be covered. Hiking, backpacking, swimming, camping, and a few more.

 

Pet care? Sports?

 

 

[Beavah 205]

Neither one follows the Scouting program methods....followed by hundreds of thousands of Scout leaders since him... just...evidently...not all of them....

 

dig, dig, dig...

 

There are variety of better ways than either of the methods we are offered in the opening post.

 

Of course there are other ways! Feel free to contribute your favorite to the discussion.

 

I don't know where you get the idea that it isn't encourgaged, that's the standard summer camp model.

 

Indeed it is. But, "to the fullest extent possible, the merit badge counseling relationship is a counselor-Scout arrangement in which the boy is not only judged on his performance of the requirements, but receives maximum benefit from the knowledge, skill, character, and personal interest of his counselor. Group instruction [is encouraged when] special facilities and expert personnel make this most practical, or when Scouts are dependent on only a few counselors." However even then it should be followed by attention to each individual scout. Dat's from a National Exec Board policy statement, eh? Not sayin' group instruction ain't permitted, in those occasions when it's necessary. But it shouldn't be the norm.

 

Beavah

 

"In Scouting, a boy is encouraged to educate himself instead of being instructed...." - Lord Robert Baden-Powell

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Bob White 20]

Gladly Beavah, but that was not an option you offered. You specifcally asked us to choose between the two and did not offer that there were other options.

 

First, merit badges are not supposed to be troop or patrol activities. Their are designed to allow each INDIVIDUAL scout to determine their own path. So when a Scout meets with the Canoeing merit badge counselor, the ways they will be guided through the merit badge will be as numerous as the number of canoeing marit badge counselors in the nation. That is specifically the way the MB program is intended to work. Their instruction as counselors as far as to what and how they teach is very simple. Basically they are asked to 1) make the learning as hands on as possible. 2) teach whatever you want but it must include the specific requirements of the Merit badge. 3) You must base passing the mb only on the BSA requiremenst, 4) you must test each Scout individually.

 

You cannot expect that any two councelors will teach the subject the same way, and thats expected. Some will be better than other and the scouts will learn from that experience as they learn the mb topic.

 

One of the best canoeingcounseloirs I ever saw was a fellow who was building his own canoe in his garage. (when a scout came to work on the MB they started by helping him build the canoe, as he glued or sanded or even helped clean up the counseor talked to him about the different types of canoes, the parts of the canoes and what their function was, he showed them his other canoes and how they differed, while shaping and sanding the paddles he would explain the differnt strokes. he talk about his canoeing adventures and share photos of his trips. he showed them pictures of the currents and how to read them. They would work on the canoe several times before they ever got in the water, but when they got in the scout was prepared and could practice and apply the things he learned in the "classroom" of the counselors workshop/garage. Thats good counseling!

 

(Do not try to say what B-P would have done, because B-P did not have merit badges. Merit badges are an American creation (created by Ernest Thompson-Seton) and B-P did not like them, so he certainly would not have supported patrols working on them.)

 

Now if you drop the MB portion of your premise, and just ask how you would teach canoeing skills in a troop or patrol setting, that is an entirely different question. Given the two choices you offer I would have to pick...Neither.

 

The first one is just bad and the second incomplete and not particularly safe or adventurous (and yes you can be both).

 

As far as not having a plan, not only can I not imagine an adult going into this without a plan I cannot believe a scout would choose to go into this without a plan. And if they did then what have you taught them about the importance of planning?

 

In fact YOU PLANNED in the scenerios you gave. You simply didn't do a complete plan. you idnedified what was going to be learned, you identified who was going to instruct, you identified how it was going to be instructed, you identified where it was going to be instructed, you just didn't finish the plan. You didn't set a goal to complete the plan. So you obviously aren't against planning, you perhaps are just opposed to finishing.

 

I would think a scout given the opportuunity to learn canoeing would want to know when he could take the learning and go, and how he could evaluate his success. I think a scout would be far more interested and motivated in knowing a timeline than you are.

 

 

[Beavah 205]

One of the best canoeingcounseloirs I ever saw was a fellow who was building his own canoe in his garage. (when a scout came to work on the MB they started by helping him build the canoe, as he glued or sanded or even helped clean up the counseor talked to him about the different types of canoes, the parts of the canoes and what their function was, he showed them his other canoes and how they differed, while shaping and sanding the paddles he would explain the differnt strokes. he talk about his canoeing adventures and share photos of his trips. he showed them pictures of the currents and how to read them. They would work on the canoe several times before they ever got in the water, but when they got in the scout was prepared and could practice and apply the things he learned in the "classroom" of the counselors workshop/garage. Thats good counseling!

 

What I'd point out is that there's nary a word in the whole thing about what the kids are doing - it's all about the adult. The adult talking, the adult showing, etc. The one spot the kids are engaged it's in helpin' him build his boat. I reckon that's much like da First Method, eh? Just done better than summer camp because there are fewer kids and more time.

 

IMO, Scouting isn't about instruction. It's about learning. One comes from adults, and is "pushed"; the other comes from youth, and pulls us. IMO your friend could have done a better job layin' off the war stories and even the garage, and gettin' the lads on the water. Let the questions and the tales come from them. Let the learning be from example not lesson; coaching and encouraging and lettin' 'em fly, not "telling." Even better if they're in a group with different abilities learnin' and playin' and teachin' each other.

 

But you're right, I was more talkin' about learning within the troop, eh? The thread did spring out of FCFY "curriculum". Nobody's sayin' that PL's don't have a plan for a canoe trip, and I can't imagine why anyone would think they'd be unsafe. They've made First Class, right? So they know Safety Afloat, right? The lads should be perfectly safe then, eh? Unless they were only instructed in Safety Afloat, rather than actually learning it through example and practice??

 

In fact YOU PLANNED in the scenerios you gave.

 

Sure. I planned not to worry about it, and let the Patrols handle it. Of course, if a PL came up with a class and a lesson plan, we might brainstorm other options. Sometimes it's hard for them to get away from School, too!

 

Beavah

 

"We do this through the fun and jollity of Scouting; by progressive states they can be led on naturally and unconsciously, to develop for themselves their knowledge. But if once we make it into a formal scheme of serious instruction, we miss the whole point and value of the Scout training, and we trench the work of the schools without the trained experts for carrying it out. - Lord Robert Baden-Powell

[FireKat 10]

I think what has gotten lost is TIME.

Everybody is in a rush. Rush to get to first class. Do as many MB in one day as you can.

Lost is the time when kids hung out at a neighbors place as he worked on a project and the kid watched and asked questions about what was being done and why. Sometimes it still happens. My oldest spent many hours at a neighbor's watching and helping him build an airplane.

Somehow we need to engage the kids better. Maybe smaller classes over more days. The problem with that is the loss of revenue.

Bottom line is we need to go back to quality, not numbers or profit. IMHO

[Gold Winger 9]

"Lost is the time when kids hung out at a neighbors place as he worked on a project and the kid watched and asked questions about what was being done and why. Sometimes it still happens. My oldest spent many hours at a neighbor's watching and helping him build an airplane."

 

Years ago, I took a car apart in the parking lot of my townhouse. When I say "took apart" I mean it. When I was done, the only things that were still together were the body, the engine blcok and the wheels. The only reason that the wheels stayed on it was that a friend was going to tow it away.

 

When I started the project, I expected that the boys in my neighborhood would gather around and watch or offer to help as I used to with my neighbors. Not a one stopped by. They were too intent on their GameBoys to pay attention to what I was doing.

[John-in-KC 311]

A long time ago, in a galaxy far away, I took canoeing MB... as an Explorer (Post 7, Reseda, CA). We were doing a trip down the Colorado River, put-in was Needles, we came out someplace in Lake Havasu.

 

Yes, we used a variant of the School Method to get us all trained up... we took American Red Cross Basic Canoeing. Learned in the port waters of Marina Del Rey, CA.

 

When we were ready for the trip, we went out to Needles (a 5 hour drive, but it was Spring vacation as I remember), and we put in. I remember we overnighted near the Santa Fe Topock bridge across the Colorado.

 

Several of us went to a Counselor one night after it was all done; I got the badge.

 

Each badge, each piece of training, each activity... if the youth and the adults use some common sense, what's needed will come to pass.

 

I do remember that standards were different in those days. Coast Guard Class II floatation devices were between our rumps and the thwarts.

[Hiromi 9]

 

In the Guise of a Game:

 

Developing games to promote scouting skills, whether it be canoeing, pioneering, orienteering and geo-caching - what have you - is the creative end of our job. Games make things that in the abstract may not seem so apparently fun.

 

I know that you guys hold serious reservations about anything that smacks of paramilitary or PC-incorrect. But lets not forget what boys already love.

 

They love adventure

-They love conflicts-

They love a little danger-

They love adult tools-

They love martial combat

They love codes and tests of wits and grist.

They love to pretend.

They love mischief

They love independence from adults

 

So the wrapping we put a project in, whether it be laying siege, or search and evasion, or hunting for downed spy satellites with hi and low tech devices- what's the difference if a scout learns core scouting skills pretending to be a CIA operative, a Jedi Warrior, A Navy Seal, a frontiersman protecting settlers from the Frenchies and their Iroquois scouts, a civil war detachment, a ninja force, or an elite force of the boys own design.

 

Heck I have had boys design their own country- with flag, geographic features, and code system.

 

It seems that the patrol system lends itself to this type of gamesmanship we already have established teams with leadership and established roles.

 

 

Keeping it fun- keeping it about the boy's mind set- keeping it about using economy of time and resources- are all very good arguments in favor of designing an event to maximize the boy's imagination and excitement.

 

Gingerly checking off items on a merit badge or rank advancement spread sheet- Good Lord!! What have we become?

 

The boys I know and the boy I was would much rather be asked to save the world then do work-book excercises.

 

The little joke amongst me and some of my parents is

 

"Badges- We don't need no stinking badges!"

 

HooYaa and Semper Paratus!

 

Pappy