Slouchhat 10 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Hi CrewMomma, would it be possible to make this motivated and skilled mum into an ASM? Granted, I have no idea if that''s possible in the US, but in my troop, I can appoint whomever I like as ASM if I feel that they will be a valuable asset to the troop. To be honest, we have a fresh mixed boy/girl troop and I''m looking for a female ASM because there are things I cannot do with the girls and I do not want the talk, so a female ASM is a clear must. That way the boys have a male SM to look at and the girls can look at the female ASM. best regards, Volker Link to post Share on other sites
CrewMomma 10 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Hello Slouchhat!!! In the states here we do not have co-ed Boyscout Troops. The closest thing we have to a co-ed boyscout troop is our Venturing Crew Program. This troop would not vote in a female ASM. They would rather leave the troop then see that. Link to post Share on other sites
Ohio_Scouter 10 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 That''s a tough one. I know that if my current troop wouldn''t let me camp out with my son, I''d find another Troop in about 2 nanoseconds, and I''d try to convince all his pals to come with us to the new Troop. Maybe some of the other members have a good idea? Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Bylaws? ::perk:: Bylaws? ::perk perk:: We don''t need no stinkin'' bylaws! Your committee "votes" in Assistant Scoutmasters? Do they also vote to have Assistant scoutmasters pilloried or flogged if behavior is not judged to be up to the correct standard? I thought to debate the role of women in scouting was arcane, but to have the committee vote in ASM''s? Do they give them annual evaluations as well? Along with PTO''s and overtime? Link to post Share on other sites
Slouchhat 10 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Hi, so it looks like you''re caught by the system in this case. It just seems to conflict with Scout Law No. 11 "A Scout is no fool" as having an asset and not utilizing it sounds foolish to me. best regards, Volker Link to post Share on other sites
CrewMomma 10 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 PTO and Overtime in Scouting???? I WISH!!!!! I would be a rich woman by now!!!! The process is that the Scout master submits his choices for ASM''s and the committee goes through an approval process. Link to post Share on other sites
sst3rd 129 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Being involved as a Scoutmaster for over 35 years, if it wasn''t for the moms stepping up, our Troop wouldn''t be as successful as we are today. Common sense tells me that the Scoutmaster gets to recruit his Assistants. They have to work as a team, you know. I know the Charter Organizational Representative has to sign off applications, but I didn''t know the Committee got to run these folks through an "approval process." If I was asked to be a Scoutmaster and couldn''t recruit the folks that I want as Assistants, I wouldn''t accept the Scoutmaster position. This Troop''s Committee sounds like it hasn''t had training yet, and is on a power trip. I''d run to another Troop fast, and take as many Scouts with you. I see "red flags" everywhere. sst3rd Link to post Share on other sites
John-in-KC 311 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 I thought there was something crazy. Of course, I could become as focused here as BrentAllen does about uniforms. Go to the BSA website, and search on leader selection. There is lots of material about selecting quality leaders. It''s pretty consistent: The Chartered Organization Representative HIRES and FIRES Scouters from unit serving posts. The unit can nominate a Scoutmaster. The COR is supposed to search out a Committee chair. Other jobs are searches by the Scoutmaster and the CC, not voting contests. Oh, well. I''m not in your unit, so I''ll put it on that list of things I cannot afford to worry about! Good hunting on this! Link to post Share on other sites
BrentAllen 10 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 The COR/IH and the CC have to approve/sign all adult registrations. That may be interpreted by some as "the committee votes" on the leaders. Or, they could actually be voting, which would be unusual. I don''t know of a single Troop in our district with a female SM. Several have female ASMs. Our Pack has 13 Dens, with 10 of them being lead by men, though some have female ADLs. The only time I''ve ever had any request dealing with a preference for a male or female leader, it was a mom asking if her son could be moved into a den with a male leader. This has only happened 2 or 3 times over the years, in a large Pack. I know of one Troop, chartered by a Pentecostal Church, that won''t allow women to go camping with the boys. This Troop had to request permission from the church to allow the boys to go without shirts in public at the waterfront, at Summer Camp. Hey, different strokes for different folks.(This message has been edited by BrentAllen) Link to post Share on other sites
scoutingagain 20 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Voting? Don''t people know adult volunteers have no votes in scouting? Crewmomma, your institutional head (IH) of the chartering organization essentially owns the Troop. He/She can arbitrarily tell the unit I want this person to be able to camp with the unit. And so it shall be. Unless of course their gay, but that issue has been beaten to death 10 fold in other threads. The downside is they can also arbitrarily say I don''t want this person to be associated with the unit. And so it is. But there is no voting. Voting is for democracies and scouting is not a democracy. Not for the adults anyway. It''s more like the telephone company. SA Link to post Share on other sites
eolesen 10 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 It all boils down to what the Chartering Organization wants. If it''s in the by-laws, talk to the COR/IH about it. Their vote overrides the CC or SM. I''ve seen similar issues come up with some of the LDS troops -- some stake presidents and bishops don''t want women involved in Scouting except in a cooking/cleaning type role, while other stakes don''t seem to have a problem with them serving as CC''s, ASM''s, etc. There''s a reason we have moms & dads and it''s not just biological. Having both genders present in the adult leadership of a troop is far more beneficial than having all-male or even all-female leadership. Link to post Share on other sites
CrewMomma 10 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Just as a background, this is a very active community troop with the majority of the families being home schooled kids. Just a very elitist group. Anywho, being a female leader in scouting myself, I see the need for both male and female leaders in troops. In terms of diversity issues (yes I just returned from being on staff at Woodbadge), it makes for a more well rounded educational process for the youth. Everyone has something to offer. Link to post Share on other sites
acco40 95 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 In the 60s and early 70s we had Den Mothers (no male den leaders), Cubmasters and Scoutmasters had to be male. I don't recall if females could become SAs. One of the methods of the Boys Scouts was Adult male association. Now, females may hold all of the leadership positions and the method was changed to Adult association. Was this for the better or because of a lack of male leaders? I'm not sure of the answer to that. I've known great female Scoutmasters and bad male Scoutmasters. However, all things being equal (and they never are), I think for most boys, having a male Scoutmaster is best. They are after all, role models for the boys and they indentify more with an adult male than an adult female. (This message has been edited by a staff member.) Link to post Share on other sites
CrewMomma 10 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 acco40 I actually agree with you. We do not have enough male role models in our society for the boys to look up to. It is very important to have male models so that these boys can learn how to be good fathers. One of the things I have mentioned (in other conversations about this topic) is that how these men treat women in the various leadership positions,is what the boys are going to see and model their attitudes after. With this particular troop, the majority of the volunteer dads (and committee members) are not to hot on there being female leaders in their troop - even if the scoutmaster is. It is hard to lead and be an example to the boys with one mindset when the other adults in the boys life are modeling a completely different mindset. Link to post Share on other sites
scoutingagain 20 Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 True, And what happens when one of these boys completes their Engineering degree, MBA, Law degree, choose to work on a construction site, or whereever and they walk into a job interview with their prospective boss to find out she''s female if a significant portion of their lives they''ve witnessed men treating women in authority with a lack of respect? Ask when do they get to talk to the real boss not his secretary? That will certainly help in their career development and being able to be the best kind of citizen. Units that arbitrarily limit the role of women do a disservice to their youth members. SA Link to post Share on other sites
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