Was I a bad parent?

[Eamonn]

I was active in OJ's "Scouting Career" Up until he moved from the pack into the troop.

At his request I didn't "Cross-over" with him.

He joined the Troop and I became active in other areas of Scouting.

As his parent I did attend the troop activities I was invited to attend. I toddled off to COH's and Parent's Night at camp.

I supported most of the Troop fund raising events, by selling stuff and buying stuff, most of which I could have lived happily without.

I was never asked to do much else.

So I didn't.

I never joined the Troop Committee, never took the Scouts to camp. I was never asked to drive a car full of Scouts anyplace!

I kinda think I wasn't asked because "They" knew I was busy.

But the fact is I did very little for the Troop.

I supported OJ,by making sure he was to be where he was supposed to be when he was to be there.

The Bank Of Dad was always open to pay for whatever he needed.

I was there for OJ when it seemed that his enthusiasm was at a low ebb.

At one time I was Council Training Chair. So directly or indirectly I played a role in the training of some of the troop leaders.

As District Chairman I helped the District meet the requirements for Quality District, we increased the amount of FOS money coming in by over 400% - Hopefully this in some way helped improve the programs for all the Scouts.

I played a role in starting the pack that went on to feed the troop.

I suppose if I'd been asked to do something specific, I would have volunteered.

But I also suppose if the Troop had mandated me to do something I more than lightly would have have told them to go and pound salt and depending on how old OJ was at that time we would have found another Troop.

Many will say that because I was active in the BSA I was doing my bit.

But what about parents of Scouts who are doing their bit elsewhere? Some serve on boards of hospitals, the public library, the YMCA some are very active in their church.

They support their Son's, but there just isn't enough hours in the week to take on being active in yet another activity.

Maybe I'm guilty of not being the best supporter of Troop 160? But the choice was mine and I'm happy with it.

Eamonn.

[John-in-KC]

Is this a counterpoint to the "Mandatory Volunteering" thread in Cubbing?

 

E, we all have our own place and level. Yours was ready for that much more independence. You gave it to him, but had there been a phone call, I suspect you'd have answered the need.

 

 

[scoutldr]

Were you a bad parent? Only OJ knows for sure....ask him in about 10 years.

[baden]

Actually, OJ doesn't know for sure and probably won't know in 10 years. He'll really know when he becomes a parent himself. (I think you'll probably get a passing grade)

[Eamonn]

John,

Yes it has to do with the idea of mandating people to do things that maybe others feel they ought to do or have to do.

At one time somewhere on the BSA site there was a list of cute little slogans that could be downloaded and used at training's.

One read "If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"

While of course the BSA and Scouting isn't perfect and at times does get things wrong.

At times there are things I'd like to see changed,still for the most part as an organization the rules of membership do have the interest and well being of the boys at heart.

If Scouting was truly supposed to be a Parent and Son activity the rules of membership would state that.

Tiger Cubs does require the involvement of an adult partner.

I was sometime back told that this was because someone with a bunch of letters after their name had said that little boys needed this sort of support because of their lack of maturity. I never checked this out, so I'm not sure if it's a fact or not?

Maybe I'm just irked that some well meaning people feel that they can change the rules because they feel that they can?

In another thread it seemed to me that someone thought I was lost in the past and living in bygone days.

This is not the case!!

I properly am more aware of more families who have just reasons for not stepping up to the plate than a good many of the Scouter's I have met.

I really think that the people who do give up their time and money to support young people do go above and beyond.

I only have to look back at my Father-In -Law, he worked in the steel industry. He worked shifts and only got two weeks vacation a year. One of which was spent taking the Troop he was SM of too summer camp.

He did so because he wanted too and felt he was doing his bit.

He was a super guy, but sadly there were others who didn't see the hardship that being a SM took on his family, they did see that he wasn't a regular at Roundtable meetings and never took Wood Badge.

At times many of us (Me!!) do make the mistake of judging others and their commitment to Scouting or their children, using their own (My own) commitment as the yard stick.

For a lot of Scouts being a Scout is just another activity.

I'm OK with that. I still feel that being a member can do a lot for the Lad (Or Lass).

My big fear is that we are in danger of becoming a white, middle class organization with no room for people who don't fit in.

I know that I sure as heck don't have the right to judge others and I certainly don't have the right to penalize children of parents who for what ever reason (Good or bad) might not be able or just plain not want to get involved in Scouting.

When it came to supporting the Troop OJ was in, I wasn't much of an asset. Just because I was involved within the organization didn't really make things any better or easier for the people who were involved.

Yes I was only ever a call or an email away and I like to think if I'd been asked to help, I would have done what I could.

Still this is very different than someone demanding that I would have to perform X number of hours or assist in X number of activities and having to provide someone who had the power?? With a reason, which he or she would judge to be a good or not good reason.

I have a really hard time with this.

Eamonn.

[insanescouter]

Eamonn, I agree with you. I know of many parents who do not have the ability to help. You tell them they have to they will run with their kid, will most likely will never go into Scouting. Isn't this a greater dis-service? Are we not here to help every lad we can? I do believe parents should be asked to help in anyway they can. However this has to be done on a family by family basis. If they can not help, it should not prevent jr from being in Scouts.

 

Before we start a new thread on this subject I already said this in the other thread. Yes, I know alot of this depends on location, the people involved, how big the unit is, how big the city is, how many other units are around, and a hundred other things. What works, for one unit won't work for another.

 

My personally belief is that any kid who wants to be in Scouting, should be able to be in Scouting ... (yes with in certain conditions)..

 

Ok my rant is over lets not start a new thread on this ... lol ... Basically in short what I am saying is ....

 

Eamonn - just because you didn't help the Troop directly does not make you a bad parent...

 

Scott Robertson

http://insanescouter.org

[Mrw1]

I have been very involved with our troop since my older son crossed over and specifically turned down a request for a district committee position to stay with the troop. (I also don't think I could have given enough time to make it worth doing.) I stayed away from church youth group as my son wanted something I was not involved in - although I was available to drive, etc when needed and asked.

 

My husband has never been involved with scouts - he is very impatient with kids and has no interest in camping, etc. His support stopped at dropping them off and expecting them to go to campouts since they had committed to going to scouts. He took pictures for their Eagle projects, but did little or no real work on them. He saw and commented on the things they learned and the leadership they showed.

 

And from the perspective of other troop parents, maybe he is considered a "bad parent" but he would not be an asset to the troop and he knows it.

 

The troop parents I have objected to, are the ones who don't get their kids there when they are supposed be someplace and don't encourage the kids to do their best or keep with the spirit of the program.

 

At this point I am troop advancement chair because I enjoy the kids - even though my two have gone on to college. Their dad doesn't quite understand that, but still sees the "some one has to do it," point.

[Gunny2862]

Eamonn, I don't think you were a bad parent. Your son wanted some space... you gave it to him... but were still available to him and supported him, from what I can see, in every way.

 

As to the troop you state that:"As his parent I did attend the troop activities I was invited to attend. I toddled off to COH's and Parent's Night at camp.

I supported most of the Troop fund raising events, by selling stuff and buying stuff, most of which I could have lived happily without.

I was never asked to do much else."

I wish all parents would do at least this much.

 

If your aren't asked then it's up to you to analyze your life at that stage and decide if you want to volunteer. If you had been asked you give every indication that you would have helped out! I think that is great and wish that every parent would help when they could and were asked. I'd have been happy to have had you around.

[Eamonn]

Mrw1

In a lot of ways your husband seems very like HWMBO (Her Who Must Be Obeyed)

Of course I know her as my loving wife and after 25 years of being married we have got used to each other and each others strong and weak points.

She really doesn't like the idea of groups of kids, who might not always be under control.

While it might not seem very Scout-like I really can see her telling some parents what she thinks in no uncertain terms.

Over the years her role has been supporting me. She has had to deal with Scouts and their parents on the phone, taking messages and sorting out the messes I might have be guilty of.

She has helped sort out ginormas deliveries of popcorn, when the popcorn for the district used to come to our place.

She was left running and looking after our business when I'd take off to go away Scouting.

At one time we hadn't had a family vacation as a family for a number of years (I'd been busy with "The Scouts") I thought I'd fix that!! So I took her to Philmont -I attended a conference on Commissioner Service, while she caught up with her reading.

I don't know how families where both husband and wife are deeply involved manage it?

Looking back at the "Old Eamonn" I now see that at times I was being very selfish. While of course I like to think I was doing something good and worth while; still I know at times my being out and about was as much about me spending times with my pals as it was anything else and I gave little or no thought to her and her feelings.

I still have a hard time saying no and admit to missing not being at every event and spending hours and hours just hanging out with "The gang". I miss not being at the center of things.

Sadly it took her becoming ill to deliver a wake up call.

The Scout oath and Law has been my guide for a very long time, but I now see that for this to really have meaning for me it has to start at home.

It's fine and dandy to know the 12 points of the Law, but if I'm not living them and trying to live by them at home? I'm not really a good Scout.

Eamonn.

[Venividi]

Parents have more influence on their sons than any leader is likely to have. They are with their kids for many more hours than scout leaders are. They see what their parents do; good, bad, and nuetral. If they see parents that contribute to community, (scout, town board, school board, church, youth sports league, etc.), they are likely to adopt those attributes as they become adults. Contributions to the community is good role model behavior whether through scouts or through other volunteer activities.

 

Eamonn, I read into your post that you have more recently adjusted balance of other activities as a result of a wake up call from HWMBO. I think that is also a valuable addition to the role model that you are being to your son. I expect that he will learn from it.

 

Too often, we think that if we only spend one more hour each week, we can help one more boy that otherwise might not get the opportunity for scoutings benefits. That time has to come from somewhere, and once available free time and wasted time has been exhausted, there is danger in taking too much time from other areas of life, such as family. Personal limits need to be set on time and effort devoted to scouting. It was appropriate not to be involved to a greater degree in your son's troop because of your other volunteer activities. It would have been the same if you had been heavily involved in your school board (for example). No one can do everything.

This does play into another current thread on "mandatory" volunteering. There are parents involved in other volunteering activities that they have no additional time to give without negatively affecting family. There are parents that would liabilities to the troop rather than assets, and are better off not being involved. We all also know of people that have other priorities; career, golf or other recreational activities, etc., and make a choice to pursue those instead.

 

We all have choices in balancing what we can do, and what we can support. Given "x" number of volunteers, with "y" amount of time and talent, we can support "z" number of scouts. We need to recognize that limit and stick to it, because otherwise program quality drops to a point where some scouts leave, or our families are inadvertantly penalized, or scouters experience burnout and become less effective.

 

Eamonn, I thank you for your volunteer work at council level. My personal view is that those are much more difficult jobs to fill.

 

 

[AvidSM]

Eamonn, from my point of view as a Scoutmaster, you were not a bad parent. Your son asked you not to "cross over" and you supported him emotionally and finacially.

 

I have seen bad parents first hand - they are the ones who make the wrong choices. The ones who pull their happy, spirited sons out of scouting because they, the parents, do not understand how a troop is run. Or the ones who do not limit the activities their son is allowed to do and scouting gets the short end of the stick -"He couldn't make the meeting because he didn't finish his homework -is being punished - etc". The ones who push their sons too hard or don't give their son's any room to grow. The ones who don't take their son to their first meeting, so they never join, even though they are interested in scouting.

 

Good parents are the one's who teach their son about committment - that scouting requires more than a partial effort. You made the right choice to serve scouting as a DC and to support a Pack.

 

[Eamonn]

I'm sure many of you have read "How do you eat an elephant?"

The correct answer is of course one small bite at a time!!

"How do you get it done faster?"

Of course you offer other people to join you.

Some will come with all the tools they need, others will need help.

Some will take a bite and just love it, while others will not like it at all.

Some will not be willing to even try it.

Some may have a leftover elephant in the fridge that they are working on, some might have more than one!!

Some people will dig right in.

Some will want to know what parts they have to eat and what parts can be left on the side of the very big plate.

Some will stick around till the elephant is eaten, others will eat till they are full and then be on their way.

Eating elephants and volunteering have a lot in common.

Could someone please pass the salt?

Eamonn.

[insanescouter]

I am working on a very very large elephant right now... anyone want take a plate full away ...

 

Scott Robertson

http://insanescouter.org

[scoutldr]

A psychiatrist once told me..."People who are truly crazy don't wonder if they are. They are sure that they are not."