"token" Positions of Responsibility

[OldGreyEagle 5]

In another thread, the positions of Librarian and Bugler was referred to as a "token" position. Any position, whether bugler or historian or Senior Patrol Leader can be a token position if the adults allow it. If you dont give the youth clear and concise direction based on well communicated expectations, then it is the adults who have failed. If you dont evaluate and give feedback to the youth while in their position, and hold them to an expected level of performance then you have failed. If you have a token position in a troop, its because the adults allow it, the youth did not turn the position into one of tokenism (and not a Hobbit either)

[Eagledad 2785]

I had the same response to that subject. Our troop has two historians because they do a troop newsletter among other duties, and our two scribes update the Web Site, among other duties. I will say that these are challenging responsibilities and require well trained adult counselors.

 

We modified the responsibilities of those jobs and other so that the experience had value toward developing growth in behavior and leadership. If the adults don't see that happening, something should be changed.

 

We talk a lot about SM assigned PORs, but I think this is misused as well. I don't think asking a scout to plan, lead and run a COH has to be equivalent to the responsibilities of a PL, it just needs to be something challenging for the scout to experience in his next step toward growth. If I ask a younger scout to lead a game, it likely is because I see that he needs that responsibility to develop confidence. Our older scouts spend a month training a staff and getting ready for JLT. I don't think any JLT staff scout has asked for credit for the job. Maybe some day. Is the focus a little misdirected here? Shouldn't a job or POS be looked at as helping a boy continue to grow? The rest will follow, or at least it has in my observations.

 

Barry

[John-in-KC 311]

From my mind, token depends in part on how we the Scouters encourage the PLC to treat PORs.

 

If we allow a minimalist standard from the PLC, they will allow a minimalist standard for the warranted offices (gee, who else remembers that term?).

 

If SMs and CCs demand high standards of the PLC, it should in turn set and keep high standards for the youth.

 

My thoughts.

 

YIS.

[Beavah 205]

Any position, whether bugler or historian or Senior Patrol Leader can be a token position if the adults allow it.

 

Yah, you bet.

 

And plenty of times, especially in smaller troops, some of da listed positions just don't make any sense, eh? Eagledad talks about historians doin' a troop newsletter and scribes runnin' a web site. Super! Great POR's (though I think we should call 'em Newsletter Editor and Webmaster ). 'Round here, though, pretty few troops have either newsletters or functioning web sites. Most small units get by with meeting announcements. So it's OK not to have a scribe, if that really isn't a position a particular troop has or needs.

 

Lot's of troops, though, get into a notion that they have to have someone in every position to "give them something for advancement." Chaplain's Aides in secular units without a Chaplain or a prayer is my favorite. Talk about adults not gettin' it. Doesn't do a kid any favors to teach him that the job to be sought after is da one where you have to do the least but you still get paid.

 

I think most of the problem in troops is adult and kid understanding. We have great little spiral-bound books with directions for PL's and SPL's. We don't have anything more than a few cursory job descriptions for other POR's, which often don't fit into a particular unit's setup. And we offer no guidance to SM's on "What makes for a good POR or SM-assigned project?" So I think the original thread was a great question.

 

Yah, and I'll stick by my guns, eh? I think the best way to talk about it is that POR's should be in the same league in terms of effort and growth as the PL position. Not identical, just in the same league. That leaves plenty of room for a good SM to adjust to individual kid abilities, and gives enough vision for a new or weak SM to understand the elements to use that program piece well, without makin' it just a token.

 

I also think it's just fine to encourage a lad to take on a task without having it somehow tied to advancement. Running a COH should be just a cool way to help out, even if it's not quite enough to make for "serve actively in a POR for 6 months." And "attaboys" are as potent a form of recognition as badges.

 

Beavah

 

[hotdesk 10]

Each position should have something to do during their term in office. The Scoutmaster and Patrol Leader's Council should expect them to fullfill their positions. Scouts who do not fullfill minimum responsiblities should not receive credit for serving in their position of responsiblity.

 

In our troop every position has things to do and every position is expected to complete these things.

 

Librarian: check MB Books in/out, keep inventory, prepare books for camp

 

Historian: take pictures and upkeep troop scrap book

 

Scribe: take attendance at all activities (attendance is a prerequist for running for troop positions), take notes at the Patrol Leader's Council

 

so on and so forth.

 

Keep in mind, the things required from each position will change by troop because of the difference in troop membership.

[Eamonn 61]

Not sure if this is going to come out right?

I'm not in any way Anti- Advancement.

Advancement can be and is a good thing.

Still, not everything has to be driven by advancement.

At times I feel we allow Advancement to over-ride everything that we seem to do.

All to often in our area we seem to have small Troops that in order to ensure that the requirements are met will hand out Position Patches.

Does a Troop of less than 20 Scouts really need 4 ASPL's?

All to often when I sat in on Eagle Scout Board of Reviews I asked a Lad "What did you do as ... ?" Only to hear him say "Not very much , there wasn't anything to do!"

A responsibility to my way of thinking means that you take on a job (position) that needs doing and you do your best to do it.

If there is nothing to do? Then there is no need for the position.

We the old people have a responsibility to explain what the responsibilities of the position are and work with the Scout to help him meet or exceed the responsibilities of the position.

If such a thing as "Token" does exist does it make any difference what title we give it?

A SPL who is not given the opportunity to act as a real SPL and ends up doing nothing is no different than the Troop Dog walker when there is no dog. The end result is both Scouts do nothing and learn nothing good.

I'm very proud of the Scouts in the Ship. I really like them and do care about them. I can be as good (or bad?) at looking for and finding loop holes as anyone. But my feeling is that if I were to allow this sort of thing I'd be short changing the Scouts.

To this end I will chase them and put pressure on them to do what they have said they are going to do. At times it would be a lot less work to say what the heck and just do it myself. But that would be me shirking my responsibilities.

So while maybe some units do allow Token Positions, I kinda think in many ways Token Responsibilities is a contradiction.

We (the adults) do need to be aware that things do change and there are times when the responsibilities a Scout has might need to changed or even relaxed due to other responsibilities that he or she may have.

Right now with so much going on at school, I know that the Ship's Log hasn't been updated, I know that the minutes of the last QD meeting haven't been e-mailed. I know because I asked and was told what was going on. I said it would be OK if the minutes were just notes, but I did feel that the log needed to done fairly soon, before we got to far behind and it became a big project. Our Yeoman tried hard to get me off her back by telling me that she would try to get to the log when she could. I pushed her until she agreed that it would be done by the end of the week (Tomorrow!!)

I have my notes from the QD meeting. I have e-mailed them to our Boatswain this will help him write the agenda. But I'm not going to send them to everyone else. Not because I want to be mean, but Sarah (the yeoman) needs to learn something.

Even if she doesn't do it. - She will learn more than if I were to do her job for her. I do understand about finals and all the stuff that is going on at school (Last night was prom -She looked wonderful in her dress -My kid looked good in his tux!!)I'm not going to give her a hard time if she doesn't do it. Maybe just my "Pained look" and shake of the head. If however she does get it done, I will go out of my way to sing her praises -Which I plan to do anyway for getting the Ship's Log done.

Later today the Store-man and Purser are supposed to be doing an inventory of the safety equipment on out bigger boat and then going to buy what we need. But they were both at the prom last night. Maybe it can wait till tomorrow? Again I already know what we need, I could go to the store and have everything done. I wouldn't have to think about giving up my time tomorrow, but this isn't what we are trying to teach these Scouts. It is their Ship, their responsibility. I'm here to help and support them -Even if at times this is with a very gentle and very friendly kick in the pants.

All of this is I hope teaching them something about what responsibility entails and means. If along the way it falls in with meeting the odd requirement needed for advancement? That's an added bonus.

OJ, got home from the prom about an hour ago -He looks terrible and like he could sleep for a week. I don't think I'll be going to West Marine today!!

Eamonn.