"Incentives" (bribery) and enrollment fraud

[jkhny 10]

I don't have an issue with a Scout getting a "Recruiter" patch if they bring in a new boy, I don't have an issue with programs to advertise Scouting to boys.

 

However, I'm starting to feel that our Council is "over the line" in offering all kinds of "incentives" with a focus on boosting counts (without adding long term members) and the way in which they are reporting numbers.

 

"All new Cub Scouts who submit applications and fees through theri 2006 re-charter by October 15..... will be issued a New Cob Scout kit."

 

"Also any Cub Scout who is already enrolled in Scouting who pre-pays his 2006 registration fees to Council by October 15... wil also be issued a New Cub Scout kit"

 

Boy Scouts are getting pocketknives

 

Units that increase enrollments by 20 % get varying awards.

 

Such "gimmicks" are blatant "front-loading" techniques used by companies to book higher "numbers."

 

No menton is made about STAYING enrolled in Scouting - only paying the dues and getting those applications in as soon as possible (which means you get counted for the year - and even 2006 - even if never seen after a meeting or two). ANd your poor DE won't have to front the dues for long gone scouts to fake his counts.

 

Our Council was challenged on enrollment counts this Spring. Council reports mysteriously reduced counts without explanation. A promised "investigation" has yet to begin - though Executive Board minutes show less than 7,000 Scouts instead of the "over 10,000" that our Council supposedly "serves" (present tense). There are less than 1,000 questionably "served" by other programs other than Scouting (LFL and such). That leaves a 20-30% difference in reported counts.

 

It seems to me and others that this effort reflects a rather pressured effort to boost counts up to the numbers claimed - with NO focus on retaining members. Who cares? as long as we can "legally" count them ....seems to be the attitude. Volunteers see all these programs as a pressured attempt to boost counts up to what was claimed - BEFORE any "investigation" is conducted.

 

Memership is actually DECLINING - but with all the "churning" - continually signing up kids that don't stay - the "Youth served by year end" numbers do NOT reflect the far lower "ACTUAL active members RIGHT NOW" count. REAL "success" is growth in boys that STAY in Scouting - NOT manipulated "youth served" counts. Membership now is down by 10-15% from last year at the same time using the numbers available (which is what others report).

 

Our District claimed 1800 - 2200 for year end (depending on what you look at) - current count is 1250. BIG difference and BIG drop from 12 months ago.

 

Of note we have been using all the "incentives" so widely touted as behind "success" in boosting enrollments elsewhere - like Alabama. "Fishing lures" pinewood kits, etc. Too bad the "success" there was due to fraudulent reporting, not more real boys. Our SE is from GA - in the center of all the current scandals - AL, GA, and FL - get the feeling he picked up bad habits?

 

 

Instead of REAL solutions - BSA is on the same old path to illusionary short term "fixes" that fix nothing. Wasn't National supposed to have adopted measures to stop this kind of fraud? This type of weaseling is NOT "ethical and moral."

 

Didn't ZZZZBest and others blow up over incentives to bring in business, front end booking and faking renewal of short-term contracts to boost "numbers?"

 

And for those that argue that BSA's convoluted accounting that counts ANY boy as "served" even if he went to only one meeting.....is such a "stretch" ethical or moral? Does Scouting eally "grow" in any way by counting such "members"? The truth is that such turnover is a sign of FAILURE. If you keep adding boys but lose tehm at an even faster rate, you are FAILING? But with BSA's accounting system you're showing "success"

 

This is getting old, angering volunteers and reflects poorly on all Scouting claims to represent.

 

 

Of course the Second half of our Council Newsletter focused on why "Popcorn Makes it Real" and why sales are the key to quality Scouting programs..... More than a few are seriously arguing that Trails End popcorn does NOT meet BSA's fundraising criteria, providing a quality product at a reasonable price and NOT trading off its association with BSA. The "incentive" structure used in these sales is similar to too many other sales schemes touting a highly overpriced product.

 

This really IS starting to feel like a sleazy "pyramid sales" scheme that exists mainly to "add members" and "sell popcorn" - you'd be hard pressed to think otherwise looking at what leadership is focused on.

 

Anyone else having the same experience?

 

If not - be happy and thank your stars.

 

[dan 10]

I do not have a problem with the BSA giving a little incentives to get more boys to join scouting, not sure why you think this is such a scandal. Giving Boy Scouts pocket knives is bad?

But I will agree with you that the BSA is going to have to do something to keep the boys in the program. If they want it to grow.

I do not think that it is possible though.

I think the BSA program is great, but very few units follow the program. If the BSA came down and said you will follow the program or you will not be re charted. Units would drop like flys, we leaders want to run the program our way and not follow the BSA program. Even if the BSA did this, they do not have the correct resources in place to make this happen. The unit Com. that I see are pretty clueless on the Aims and Methods.

I will also agree with you that the inflation of number is very sad. But I am not sure that it is as widespread as you say. You make is sound like the majority of the councils are doing this. Which I do not beleive is true.

[ScoutNut 147]

I am not sure why you equate enrollment incentives to fraud. The boys like the incentives & that encourages the units to turn registrations in promptly, & not hold on to them for months at a time. I would really hope that most of the boys would be signed up by mid October anyway.

 

How does registering a boy by Oct 15 & giving him an incentive automatically mean he will not stay in Scouts. And how is it BSA's fault if the boy quits before the end of the year?

 

Giving the boys a good Scout program is the job of the Unit & it's CO. The council provides support. They are not the ones running the weekly meetings.

 

BTW - most of the promotion of the incentive is to the unit & it's leaders, not the boys. We never tell the boys - "sign up now & get this real cool thing". We tell them - "sign up now & belong to this real cool program". Then a month later - "oh, by the way here's a cool thing for you too!".

 

 

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

Getting numbers is their job, GREAT! We (I) want them to make the Pack GROW. It is up to us to make the Pack GO. So, let's GRAB those incentives but follow it up with training and quality support.

FB

 

 

 

[rkfrance 11]

I think jkhny has a lot of valid points. I've seen some of the things he said happen in our Council. The pressure is on the DE's to constantly increase enrollment. (It should be expected. It's part of their job.)

 

I've seen questionable recruiting practices. It's grab and go with the applications and money. The boys might not even be placed into a unit for several weeks. Has any interest been lost at that point? Any thoughts of "What did I get for my money"?

 

I see the concern of offering the "incentives". Incentives are not bad, but with Councils continuously in money concerns, wouldn't it be better to keep the boys involved simply by ensuring the units follow the program? The other harder trick to pull off would be to involve parents and keep their interest in the program.

[scoutldr 732]

I would prefer to see the pocketknife presented at the one-year mark...at the Court of Honor where they receive their First Class badge, and AFTER they have earned their Totin'Chip.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Free introductory "gifts" are a staple of American Business. Sign up this week and receive free installation, three months free,Computer Case, what-have-you. The crucial test is not the free gift, but does the product deliver, and its up to US, the volunteers, to deliver the promise (where have I heard that before)and keep them interested

 

Often BSA, Councils and Districts are roundly slammed on this and other forums for not doing more to promote the program, and perhaps with some justification. Here we have incentive gifts being used and the idea is slammed. You cant please everyone(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[madkins007 10]

"Its not the gift, its the thought that counts."

 

An enrollment gift is JUST a gift if you use it that way. Are you bragging "Join the Scouts and get a free knife!!!!", or are you saying "Join the Scouting Adventure!" then giving the knife later?

 

Are people joining for the gift then dropping out, like people do when they fake apply for credit cards just to get the freebie?

 

 

 

[FScouter 24]

"You cant please everyone"

There are Scout-haters out there that will slam everything BSA does or does not do.

[eagle90 125]

We have given incentives for recruiting new scouts at times. Normally we would give a gift certificate to Blockbuster. But we added the stipulation that the new recruit must pay his registration fees and dues, attend a weekend campout, and attend 4 meetings. We figured by then you would have him hooked and he would stay!

[Lynda J 10]

I see nothing wrong with incentivies. We tell boys is they sell so much popcorn they can pick prizes. We give ribbons for Pinewood derbys. We award badges for work done. These are incentivies in their ways. I don't agree with handing out knives since BSA policy is that a scout can't carry a knife until he has earned his chit.

 

The year that Kevin entered Tigers the recruitment was almost like a Scout Show. Lots of Cubs and Scouts that were already in and lots of display of crafte and skill being shown. It was great Kevin still is friends with the Bear that talked to him that night and showed him how to tie a square knot. This boy is still in our troop. And we had 22 boys register about half are still in. The next year was the same and we had about the same number. The next year the Council said they wanted to handle recruitement.

They sent a DE out to "talk at" the boys one evening at the school. We had about 40 boys show up, 11 boys sign forms and finally got the money on about 7 of those.

This is not the way to get kids into Scouting.

They have been talked at by an adult all day at school. It isn't fun to go in the evening and be talked at by another adult. This past year I took Kevin with me in his BOy Scout uniform to the Cub Night at school. He took some of the things he had done, pictures of campouts and his badge swap collection. The DE was actually upset he was there. The boys that were there loved looking at Kevins things and kept asking him questions. After a little while the DE ask me to take Kevin home. Kevin and I left. The other Unit rep there said they signed up 2 boys and neither of those ever showed up at a meeting.

Boys interested in scouting want to see what they will be doing. They want to see the fun they can have they want to see the things the boys already in are doing. They don't want to sit and be lectured to.

[jkhny 10]

 

 

Agreed but I'll bet those 7 were on Council rosters even if never seen again....

 

 

>>.....This past year I took Kevin with me in his BOy Scout uniform to the Cub Night at school. He took some of the things he had done, pictures of campouts and his badge swap collection. The DE was actually upset he was there. The boys that were there loved looking at Kevins things and kept asking him questions. After a little while the DE ask me to take Kevin home. Kevin and I left. The other Unit rep there said they signed up 2 boys and neither of those ever showed up at a meeting. >>

 

And again, I'll bet those two are on the rolls......

 

But in neither case are those boys in Scouting - for real - nor are they learining anything or nhaving any of teh fun they could be having in Scouting....

 

The focus is on "A focus on superficial measures of success - numbers and money" - quoting a professional....

 

Did that DE leave you with a good impression? Did he do anything to help grow your unit?