Fuzzy Bear 12 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 Thoughts based on recent Forum discussions (and other readings): Truth can be thought of as enduring knowledge irrespective of perspective. Does a person give up on finding truth and settle for science? Science- bits of truth based on theories. Ultimate knowledge is suspended and may be found and used by Man. Does one give up on finding truth and settle for God? God- truth that transcends human knowledge and is expressed in principles, such as morals. God is ultimate truth and allows men to be the recipient of some of that knowledge. It seems to be questions people have expressed from the beginning of language and/or gatherings. Is it not amazing that such strong cultures, whole societies, gigantic rock structures, powerful armies and fearsome gods have been recovered from the dirt and the vines of the ages? These people asked and answered these same questions. Was it their failure to find truth or is that the ultimate expression of life itself? FB Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 I have related this before, and will obviously relate it again, Pilate to Jesus: What is truth? is truth unchanging laws? We both have truths, are mine the same as yours? Jesus Christ Superstar Before we get information on the truth, perhaps we should define it. Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 Deep subject. Truth=fact? Not always. Truth=knowledge? Not always. Knowledge=Truth? Not always. There are truths that are universal. There are truths that are relative to a person & situation. A truth for me is God created the world. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
Fuzzy Bear 12 Posted June 14, 2005 Author Share Posted June 14, 2005 OGE (restate)Truth is unchanging laws but may be subject to one's perspective. interesting...I would like to know what laws don't change but are particular to your knowledge. Ed Let me restate what you said, neither truth nor knowledge are always factual. Some truth and knowledge is factual and relative to the person/situation. There are Universal Truths that are always factual. God's Creation is factual. My first reaction is to feel some irritation about not knowing but I like the idea of Universal Truths. I would like to know more if either of you would like to share. (No judgments) Thanks, FB Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 The Republican way of life is the only way of life, I know a few families to which this is the truth and the law The Democratic way of life is the only way of life, I know a few families (IE Kennedy)to which this is the truth and the law. The earth is the center of the Universe, this was the truth and law for centuries Depends what you consider law Murder is illegal, yet during a war, its state sanctioned so its ok. Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 Universal truths can also change. OGE mentioned one. Another would be the earth at one time was accepted as being flat. That was disproved and now a universal truth is the earth is round. Truths are not always facts, either. Knowledge can lead to truth but there are times greater knowledge will disprove a truth. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
frank10 12 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 FB - does this help? http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v435/n7043/full/435743a.html Link to post Share on other sites
madkins007 10 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 I saw a great quiz about truth in a book one time. Some of the questions were (which statements are 'true'?) 1. Shakespear wrote 'Hamlet'. 2. Geoge W. Bush wrote 'Hamlet'. 3. Jesus was the son of God. 4. When you let go of a hammer, it will fall down. There were others, but thse are the ones I recall. (I'll post more questions and the book's answers later!) Link to post Share on other sites
Eamonn 61 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 I stole a very good line from my dear friend Frend Jenkins, he would very often say : " I thought I was wrong once but I made a mistake" Isn't that truth in a nutshell? If not it works for me!! Of course there are those who will point out that John 14:6 states: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn) Link to post Share on other sites
Fuzzy Bear 12 Posted June 14, 2005 Author Share Posted June 14, 2005 wingnut, restated- We can now understand much of the bottom-up approach (reductionism) to our world but it does not allow us to understand our present choices (intentionalality) or the reasons for doing so (purpose). We can understand much of what makes up the world but not always predict the outcomes (contextual casuality of complexity). Developing a physics to bring both together to understand the latter may become our next frontier. *So given our best information, we still are left with few answers. OGE restate-Some find politics as their defining role in life but truth rightly understood is temporary or transitional. *fewer answers still Ed, restate- Universal truths, facts, knowledge, are subject to change but can lead to greater truths. *Then being open to a world that holds few answers but promises us greater, gives one hope. madkins, Shakespeare wrote Hamlet but G.W.'s experience may well rewrite the same. Truth travels in circles or ellipses. We live in a world turned upside down but answers/truth can be (re)found. Jesus was the Son of God is the past tense, making it a transitional truth with future implications. Letting go of a hammer implies that gravity always works which brings one to believe in a truth that never varies. *stimulating insights Eamonn Finding that one is right is always amazing. Finding the truth, the way, and the life is even greater. *With so much to be wrong about, finding truth in any form brings joy. Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 John 14:6 states: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. There is no God but Allah. and Mohammed is his prophet(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle) Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 Jesus is the son of God. Just as I am my father's son. Jesus will always be God's son & I will always be my father's son. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 Ronald Reagan was one of the greatest presidents of the 20th century, if not one of the greatest of all time. Ronald Reagan was a bumbling fool in the early stages of Alzheimers who was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time. Link to post Share on other sites
acco40 95 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 OGE, not to pick nits, but your "murder" usage is a pet peeve of mine. Murder has a legal meaning, not a moral one. Abortion is NOT murder - in most states, in the early trimesters. It may be considered wrong, immoral, unethical, killing of human being, etc. but is not in fact murder (i.e. it is legal). Just like killing in war is usually not murder (not all killing in war is considered "legal"). So the term "state sanctioned murder" is, IMO, a misuse of the English language. The phrase, "state sanctioned killing" is a better phrase. Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 A little side-step - The only reason abortion isn't murder is because it's a medical procedure. If an unborn child is killed any other way, it's murder. Now we return you to your regular thread. Link to post Share on other sites
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