Pack Merger - How To? - Ideas? - Tips?

[Gossmaaf 4]

I officially had my first pack meeting as cubmaster yesterday and picked up 1 new scout at the same time, pretty good for my 40th birthday.  Today our pack was approached from a neighboring school for possibly merging units with us.  Does anyone have any advice, lessons learned, or anything that could help me make sure we do whatever is best for the scouts in both units?  I suggested we start by just co-operating the two units as separate entities but together until the parents decide what works best for them. 

I see the obvious situations, such as making sure we meet at both schools equally so we don't create a "takeover" situation and provide the best access to scouts or potential scouts at both schools.  The current adult leadership we would need to evaluate and overlap as well (any advice on that) so we don't have one pack feeling slighted as it comes together.  I was (in the fringes) involved in a Council merger when I was an OA officer and saw some ways animosity can be created as that situation was just a lot to collect (they split our council up as part of it across several other councils).  I'm going to be doing some reflection on that 

I'm new as Cubmaster, and I would love to hear others on lessons learned so I can avoid issues that will compromise the experience of Scouting in either Pack as well as if anyone knows where to find a How-To step by step as online searches came up pretty empty.  Like pack financials, taxes, Chartering Org discussions, etc...

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

1 hour ago, Gossmaaf said:

I officially had my first pack meeting as cubmaster yesterday and picked up 1 new scout at the same time, pretty good for my 40th birthday.  Today our pack was approached from a neighboring school for possibly merging units with us.  Does anyone have any advice, lessons learned, or anything that could help me make sure we do whatever is best for the scouts in both units?  I suggested we start by just co-operating the two units as separate entities but together until the parents decide what works best for them. 

I see the obvious situations, such as making sure we meet at both schools equally so we don't create a "takeover" situation and provide the best access to scouts or potential scouts at both schools.  The current adult leadership we would need to evaluate and overlap as well (any advice on that) so we don't have one pack feeling slighted as it comes together.  I was (in the fringes) involved in a Council merger when I was an OA officer and saw some ways animosity can be created as that situation was just a lot to collect (they split our council up as part of it across several other councils).  I'm going to be doing some reflection on that 

I'm new as Cubmaster, and I would love to hear others on lessons learned so I can avoid issues that will compromise the experience of Scouting in either Pack as well as if anyone knows where to find a How-To step by step as online searches came up pretty empty.  Like pack financials, taxes, Chartering Org discussions, etc...

Congrats!

Here's how to work this "within" the system.

1.  Make sure your CO's are good with this.  Check with your CORs.  If the CO's are willing to support a merge, you will be able to make it happen in spite of whatever resistance you meet.  However, if a CO does not wish to "give up" their program, things may develop some tension.  Especially since all gear and money technically belongs to the CO's.

2.  THEN, get COR approval (recommend an email) to conduct cross-unit activities, including camping....

3.  THEN, contact your Unit Commissioner and tell them of this development. Expect a lot of questions to help you go down this road (hopefully.)

4.  THEN, contact your District Executive re same.  Expect some push back.  Council may not wish to "lose" units.  If you do not have the support of your CO's, then you will meet resistance.  

5.  THEN, get council approval (recommend an email through DE) to do cross-unit activities (from different COs), as they must be approved by District or Council.  From the G2SS: "Local council approval is needed for unit-coordinated overnight camping activities involving other units not chartered by the same organization. Units that wish to host events involving other units that do not share the same charter partner must have approval from their council. This includes events for packs, troops, crews, and ships from the same council; neighboring councils; the same territory; or other territory." 

6.  THEN, between the two Committees, figure out which CO you want to have the unit.  What will the unit number be?  If you want to move a unit number to a new CO, you will complicate things, but this can be done...

7.  THEN, come back here for next steps 😜

Here's how to do this "outside" the system.

1.  The two Committees decide which unit will be primary.

2.  Transfer all Scouts to the gaining unit through Scoutbook / Internet Advancement. 

3.  Adults from losing unit must fill out new/updated applications to move positions to the gaining unit.  These will be "multiple" registrations, at no cost.  Do not neglect this step.  Keep your Council Registrar on your side... 

4.  Dispose of gear and funds.  This stuff belongs to your CO, so be careful.

5.  Old unit ceases events.  Does not recharter for the next go-around.

There's much more Devil in these Details, though...

Figure out which track you want to go, and come back for additional rudder corrections, when necessary.

[Eagledad 2779]

Why do they want to merge?

Barry

[Gossmaaf 4]

@Eagledadthey are looking to merge as they are smaller and once their current Webelos end after next year the pack will be down to 12 scouts across the other ranks combined.  We have had families in the past join our pack due to them looking for a "more active pack".  Their Tiger den is their second largest group though, which overlaps well with us as that is our smallest den.  Wolves and Bears would potentially be a size issue but that's up to the Den Leaders and Den Chiefs to determine if they have too much to handle.

We also have very active Den Chiefs in our Pack from 4 separate Troops so each Den has at least 1 Chief and we were already looking at going to 2 per Den due to the amount of Den chief volunteers we have.

[OaklandAndy 70]

12 scouts is still a good number to build off of though. After covid, I was down to 6 scouts but built it up to 51 over the next couple years. Took a lot of work, but with the help of some volunteers who showed up at the right time, we were able to thrive. 

If they are not being "active", you might be in for more work than you bargained for. 

[Gossmaaf 4]

Good point on the more than we bargained for and although I want to bring scouting to as many potential or current scouts as I can, my primary responsibility is to the members of my current Pack.

@OaklandAndyOn the numbers, that's impressive that you got from from 6 up to 51.  I hope we can all learn about how you did that.  Our pack has some new leaders starting to step up that will really help us get there so I hope we continue to grow our energy for our scouts to have what we all want to see.  They have (other than webelos) 1 den of 1 scout, 2 dens of 3 scouts and a decent Wolf den size.  I can see where overlap helps us strengthen our smaller dens, but I agree we don't want to disrupt the energy that our Pack has been getting the past couple years .

For the short-term, (discussing with him tomorrow at Roundtable) I'm going to suggest to the other Cubmaster that we just Co-Operate the two packs as a single unit.  That is more reversible a decision than actually merging, although a lot of the same difficulties will exist to be fair and balanced.  If we do it right it allows for more adult leader coverage and more events/opportunities for the scouts in both Packs to work together.  Also, if that school ever sees a resurge of membership they can just roll back to the way they were before co-operating.

This also allow us to better isolate issues that may have been causing the other unit problems to spill over to our Pack which, while not 51 scouts, is consistent in den sizes for the most part and is set for some growth in the coming years I hope.

Edited March 6 by Gossmaaf

[HashTagScouts 437]

Sounds reasonable to co-operate, at least for a time, and that may allow folks to not get overly worked up about "the change"- if they understand it is potentially short-term, there could be less of a feeling of dread. I've been through a Lodge merger when councils merged, and the first year was a miserable experience of (mainly adults) negativity. I wish I had bought a few dozen copies of Who Moved My Cheese? and handed them out at the beginning.  

You mentioned trying to make equal use of both schools. I would just do everything you can to make a calendar about what nights you are at which location for at least 3 months at a time and get each family that calendar several times over. As many parents that are scheduled to the hilt these days, even being across town on a given week it may be difficult for them to make it, but with advance notice they can at least better plan for it.  

Edited March 6 by HashTagScouts

[Eagledad 2779]

Lots of good ideas here. Who is leading this charge? Should be DE, but you never know their experience. You could be that person, but if you do, delegate, delegate delegate. Running a pack is hard enough without trying to help another. It's OK to have the ideas and let others run with it. But, I would ask for a meeting with the pack adults and ask them how they feel about these ideas and learn their temperament of the situation. You are not there to take advantage of them, you only want to lend a hand. Let them know that.

I have worked with some splits and mergers, so I will help anywhere you need, but you have already go very good suggestions.

Good luck.

Barry

[Gossmaaf 4]

@HashTagScoutsYou aren't by chance from the old Wabash Valley Council are you?  You mention the council and lodge mergers and I just remember that being a mess for WVC when the council got split across the Lincoln Trails Council and Crossroads of America Council and Kickapoo merged with Woapink lodge and Jaccos Town Lodge.  I was on the Kickapoo officer team at the time and was also in Blackhawk district that split from the other two districts in WVC during the mergers.

[OaklandAndy 70]

@Gossmaaf...there was a lot of different variables that went into rebuilding the unit. I'd hate to say it, but I did EVERYTHING I could think of to keep the program alive. Especially since out of the 6 kids, 2 of them were mine and we only had 2 dens....lions and webelos. 

But we stuck with the foundation of the program, have fun, fundraise, and community service. Any time we had an event, I would submit an article to the paper. That turned into marketing on Facebook for our middle-aged parents, who would be looking for something for their kiddos. I would also post recruitment events on our local town's Facebook page. We use the fundraising to eventually build the bank account back up (we took a big hit with covid and membership so my wife and I were paying out of pocket for advancements/awards), 

Eventually, word of mouth got around and friends started inviting friends and now we are the biggest pack in our district. As we got bigger, I started delegating one or two things to different parents, some being registered positions and others being the one who hauls the trailer. EVERYONE had a task, whether it was a year-round thing or a "this is the one thing I need you to do all year". 

We led our Council in both popcorn and camp card fundraising in 2023 (hoping for a repeat) and we have been able to waive any pack dues and the pack pays for ALL program events at the unit, district, and council level, including food. 

Now this has taken a couple years to build and it took a lot of my own time because I wanted to see it succeed. The parent's also know that if we want to continue with making scouting as free as possible (which for most of them it is because of fundraising), they have to participate. 

It's also important to note that I took over the pack right before covid. All the "senior leadership" left me on my own except for one, thank God for Cubmaster Chad, but as a veteran Marine, I hate to lose so I found a way to make it work. 

[awanatech 87]

On 3/6/2024 at 12:27 PM, InquisitiveScouter said:

Congrats!

Here's how to work this "within" the system.

1.  Make sure your CO's are good with this.  Check with your CORs.  If the CO's are willing to support a merge, you will be able to make it happen in spite of whatever resistance you meet.  However, if a CO does not wish to "give up" their program, things may develop some tension.  Especially since all gear and money technically belongs to the CO's.

2.  THEN, get COR approval (recommend an email) to conduct cross-unit activities, including camping....

3.  THEN, contact your Unit Commissioner and tell them of this development. Expect a lot of questions to help you go down this road (hopefully.)

4.  THEN, contact your District Executive re same.  Expect some push back.  Council may not wish to "lose" units.  If you do not have the support of your CO's, then you will meet resistance.  

5.  THEN, get council approval (recommend an email through DE) to do cross-unit activities (from different COs), as they must be approved by District or Council.  From the G2SS: "Local council approval is needed for unit-coordinated overnight camping activities involving other units not chartered by the same organization. Units that wish to host events involving other units that do not share the same charter partner must have approval from their council. This includes events for packs, troops, crews, and ships from the same council; neighboring councils; the same territory; or other territory." 

6.  THEN, between the two Committees, figure out which CO you want to have the unit.  What will the unit number be?  If you want to move a unit number to a new CO, you will complicate things, but this can be done...

7.  THEN, come back here for next steps 😜

Here's how to do this "outside" the system.

1.  The two Committees decide which unit will be primary.

2.  Transfer all Scouts to the gaining unit through Scoutbook / Internet Advancement. 

3.  Adults from losing unit must fill out new/updated applications to move positions to the gaining unit.  These will be "multiple" registrations, at no cost.  Do not neglect this step.  Keep your Council Registrar on your side... 

4.  Dispose of gear and funds.  This stuff belongs to your CO, so be careful.

5.  Old unit ceases events.  Does not recharter for the next go-around.

There's much more Devil in these Details, though...

Figure out which track you want to go, and come back for additional rudder corrections, when necessary.

We did this a couple of years ago, going "outside" the system. We were the unit that merged into another one. Our Scouts & myself transferred into the other unit. In our case, doing it within the system would not have worked. We did not need council intervention into it. They haven't had anything to do with us prior to that, so we didn't need their help in that either. Both of our CO's were supportive (or at least understanding) of the change. 

[Gossmaaf 4]

So this situation is now even more complex.  The Unit Commissioner, COR, and Cubmaster are all wanting to dissolve and merge into our Pack.  The smaller unit’s biggest problems are scouts barely engaged and adult leadership other than CM is nonexistent.  District went crazy on this though and being concerned about losing a unit but the Unit Comm is concerned that if a merger doesn’t happen quickly then the scouts that are left will just quit.  

I met with my wood badge mentor who has consulted with others (and I agree) that it’s better to keep scouting for these 6-12 scouts rather than worry about a unit being saved.

The district comm is wanting to turn some of our events into recruiting events and he wants to meet with the other packs parents at one of the events and explain if they don’t step up the unit will dissolve.  The problem is the parents are there already and don’t need to be reminded.  I’m ok with expanding our event but only if the current scouts care.  I believe my prime responsibility is to the existing scouts and the program more than recruiting, let growth happen because we are having fun not because of forced growth.

The question is do I try and do what District Leadership is wanting or we do what the Unit Leadership wants?  There’s a conflict of choices for the same goal.

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

14 minutes ago, Gossmaaf said:

I met with my wood badge mentor who has consulted with others (and I agree) that it’s better to keep scouting for these 6-12 scouts rather than worry about a unit being saved.

100%

 

15 minutes ago, Gossmaaf said:

 I believe my prime responsibility is to the existing scouts and the program more than recruiting, let growth happen because we are having fun not because of forced growth.

Also 100%

Commissioner has correct picture... it's about best opportunity for those Scouts.  Let others worry about the other unit.  They can work to either save it, or transfer their Scouts to you.

Be open and supportive  to their coming over, but focus on your unit and Scouts. 

My hunch is, their CM will bring them over.

[HashTagScouts 437]

21 minutes ago, Gossmaaf said:

So this situation is now even more complex.  The Unit Commissioner, COR, and Cubmaster are all wanting to dissolve and merge into our Pack.  The smaller unit’s biggest problems are scouts barely engaged and adult leadership other than CM is nonexistent.  District went crazy on this though and being concerned about losing a unit but the Unit Comm is concerned that if a merger doesn’t happen quickly then the scouts that are left will just quit.  

I met with my wood badge mentor who has consulted with others (and I agree) that it’s better to keep scouting for these 6-12 scouts rather than worry about a unit being saved.

The district comm is wanting to turn some of our events into recruiting events and he wants to meet with the other packs parents at one of the events and explain if they don’t step up the unit will dissolve.  The problem is the parents are there already and don’t need to be reminded.  I’m ok with expanding our event but only if the current scouts care.  I believe my prime responsibility is to the existing scouts and the program more than recruiting, let growth happen because we are having fun not because of forced growth.

The question is do I try and do what District Leadership is wanting or we do what the Unit Leadership wants?  There’s a conflict of choices for the same goal.

Do what is best for the YOUTH- always. Trust your gut here.

[Armymutt 217]

We're looking a similar thing.  After Army moving season and the AOL crossover in Dec, our pack will have 6 Scouts and no CM, ACM, or Secretary.  I mentioned recruiting in our last leader meeting and was met with silence.  Frankly, there is another pack closer to us with more girls.  My son is moving up to the troop closest to us rather than the one at our CO.  They meet the same night as our pack.  This isn't going to work for our schedule, so the current pack will have 5 Scouts and no CM, ACM, secretary, treasurer, or CC.  Once the AOL crossover occurs, I will put it to the remaining parents that we should close up shop and join the other pack before recharter.  I've tried to keep this thing afloat, but I'm met with apathy every step of the way.  The CO is more of a hinderance than a help to our program.  Even the COR was recruiting for a different pack several years ago before they folded.  We'll just quietly disappear into the night, re-registering the adults who want to continue to be leaders, re-registering the Scouts who want to continue, and transferring the remaining funds to the new pack(s) according to the registrations, after refunding unused portions of dues.