Sea Base / HA Weight Limits

[BigCubr 0]

The Sea Base (and others, I think) program guide gives weight limit tables by height. Is there any factoring for fitness? I know I have weight to lose, but even in my heyday of running (very slowly!) half ironmans, I was never under 250lbs, which is +20 over the tables. I completely understand the logic for safety reasons, etc.

So, do I spend money on a personal trainer to get fit-but-still-fat, a surgeon to amputate a leg to lose enough weight, or a therapist to get over missing this chance with my kid?

I am, of course, joking about the amputation. It all comes down to: How strict are they on the weight tables?

 

Thanks

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

3 hours ago, BigCubr said:

The Sea Base (and others, I think) program guide gives weight limit tables by height. Is there any factoring for fitness? I know I have weight to lose, but even in my heyday of running (very slowly!) half ironmans, I was never under 250lbs, which is +20 over the tables. I completely understand the logic for safety reasons, etc.

So, do I spend money on a personal trainer to get fit-but-still-fat, a surgeon to amputate a leg to lose enough weight, or a therapist to get over missing this chance with my kid?

I am, of course, joking about the amputation. It all comes down to: How strict are they on the weight tables?

 

Thanks

It isn't necessarily about your fitness.  It's about others having to haul you out of a remote location if you are injured.

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

Also it is about max capacity for medevc. I have a friend whose dream was to go to Philmont, but he can never go. He is over 320 pounds, 6'11", and is a powerlifter. He humped the hills of Afghanistan carrying double the weight that what Philmont recommends. But if things happened in Afghanistan, a CH-46 would have been used for medevac. Civilian  medevacs have a max patient capacity of 295 pounds, which coincides with the max weight for HA. Sadly Congress got rid of the CH-46s of PEDRO that the Marines used to supplement civilian medevacs.

[Eagle1993 2161]

6 hours ago, BigCubr said:

How strict are they on the weight tables?

Very strict. They won't even let you stay in base camp.  If you go, come in several pounds under.  There are stories of adults who traveled, gained a pound or two and went over and then were sent off site after weigh in.

[qwazse 4345]

Seabase let me slide. On the other hand, I was BSA guard certified and only slightly over limit. No big deal for sailing adventures.

[fred8033 1593]

On 9/5/2023 at 4:45 AM, BigCubr said:

The Sea Base (and others, I think) program guide gives weight limit tables by height.

I know Philmont does that.  Does Sea Base?  I just looked in the Sailing participant guide.  It says 295; not by height.

• FAQ --> https://www.bsaseabase.org/scouts/resources/faq/
• Sailing guide (page 5) --> https://www.bsaseabase.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/2022-Sailing-Participant-Guide-.-Editable.pdf

[sierracharliescouter 85]

I don't know if it's still on the Part C for Sea Base, but it used to have the same weight/height chart as Philmont uses, but there was a line something along the lines of "for adults, we can have up to 20 lbs over these numbers". I don't even recall if I was put on a scale at Sea Base, and I was close to the upper limit on the chart. I guess if you can pass the swim test, a little extra fat will just help you float better...

[nchg2 11]

We had two crews that went on the sailing adventure in FL this August. One scout was 12lb over the stated height. I called Sea Base and it's acceptable as long as the doctor signed off on Part C for this adventure (there's a high adventure form doctors were to read before completing part c) and that the participant does not exceed 295lb. (The scout was not close to 295 either.) The crews did not get weigh-in during the check-in process. I recommend calling Sea Base admin office to confirm.

 

Philmont is very strict with their weight-height guideline.

Edited September 11, 2023 by nchg2

[RichardB 220]

https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/ahmr/medical-formfaqs/

Q. When does the height/weight chart apply? We have differing opinions in our unit/district.

A. The height/weight chart will apply in the following known adventure activities:

• Backcountry activities. When your travels take you more than 30 minutes off an accessible roadway, fire lane, camp road, etc., or where you float, walk, hike, bike, or otherwise go into the backcountry. Depending on the terrain and local conditions, this might be a few hundred yards or a few miles into the backcountry. Most Boy Scouts of America high- adventure camps include a backcountry component (ask them about their requirements before you go). For example, Philmont Scout Ranch has this standard in place.
• When your lodge, unit, district, or council requires it as part of a program.

The height/weight chart generally would not apply in the following situations (unless specific instructions are issued as an exception):

• Most resident camps. The majority of the Boy Scouts of America resident camps and most local council Cub Scout/Scouts BSA resident camps have drive-up campsites and don’t require packing in or out. Check with the camp beforehand to be sure.
• Cub Scout programs. (Backcountry and high-adventure activities are not age-appropriate for Cub Scouting.)
• Most Wood Badge courses in a typical resident camp setting, though courses held at a national high-adventure base such as Philmont Scout Ranch will enforce the limit.

Risk advisory for each HAB are provided with the AHMR download:   https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/ahmr/

Edited September 11, 2023 by RichardB
update

[fred8033 1593]

17 hours ago, RichardB said:

... The height/weight chart will apply ...  When your travels take you more than 30 minutes off an accessible roadway, fire lane, camp road, etc., or where you float, walk, hike, bike, or otherwise go into the backcountry. ...

The quote is the rule, but the application is confusing.  Backcountry is about extricating a person in an emergency.  Sea Base is not called out in the rule when Philmont is explicitly named.   Sea Base activities are often where a rescue boat can pull right up to the scout ship or Munson island.  So, does "backcountry" apply?   ...  Many resident scout camps could be considered far more back country than Sea Base.  IMHO, use the Sea Base participant guide for clarity.  

Edited September 12, 2023 by fred8033

[RichardB 220]

15 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

The quote is the rule, but the application is confusing.  Backcountry is about extricating a person in an emergency.  Sea Base is not called out in the rule when Philmont is explicitly named.   Sea Base activities are often where a rescue boat can pull right up to the scout ship or Munson island.  So, does "backcountry" apply?   ...  Many resident scout camps could be considered far more back country than Sea Base.  IMHO, use the Sea Base participant guide for clarity.  

Keep reading:   Risk advisory for each HAB are provided with the AHMR download:   https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/ahmr/

[fred8033 1593]

1 hour ago, RichardB said:

Keep reading:   Risk advisory for each HAB are provided with the AHMR download:   https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/ahmr/

Same conflicting statements existed when I went to Sea Base and when my younger son went.   Show the doctor the participant guide to the doctor.  Have the doctor sign the form.  You are good.  Call Sea Base office if really concerned.

• FAQ --> https://www.bsaseabase.org/scouts/resources/faq/
• Sailing guide (page 5) --> https://www.bsaseabase.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/2022-Sailing-Participant-Guide-.-Editable.pdf

[qwazse 4345]

1 hour ago, fred8033 said:

.   Sea Base activities are often where a rescue boat can pull right up to the scout ship or Munson island.  So, does "backcountry" apply?   ...  Many resident scout camps could be considered far more back country than Sea Base.  IMHO, use the Sea Base participant guide for clarity.  

Winds can be tricky. Seabase sailing adventures include the Sea of Abaco in the Bahamas — nice islands, but far from many amenities including top tier medical facilities. Yes sailors do try to take care of one another, but the time to rescue can vary. Seabase tries to keep participants from hurricanes - just like Philmont keeps participants clear of  wildfires. So, emergency evacuations in those scenarios may require some minimum fitness for complete success.

That said, the fitness for swimming, scuba, or sailing has different parameters than that for hiking/backpacking. Those parameters aren’t entirely aligned with body mass index. Kayaking and canoeing come close to having the same stressors as hiking, and therefore the height/weight may be relevant. So, when in doubt, contact the HA base before committing to a specific adventure.