Girl's Troop YPT Question on a family campout

[dangale 4]

No one locally seems to know the answer to this question, so I thought I'd get input from folks here. We have a family campout coming up for members and their families from both our Boy's Troop and our Girl's Troop. The campout is being held in a couple of group sites at a KOA campground. We will have multiple registered male leaders present, so that will cover YPT questions for the Boy's Troop, but the two registered female leaders we have both are unable to attend. There are three girl's Troop members planning to attend, all of which will be attending with one of both of their parents, but none of the moms who are attending are registered leaders. Given that it is a family camp and that the girl's Troop members are going to be present with their parent(s), is this scenario violating YPT since we don't have a registered female leader attending as well?

[RememberSchiff 3683]

@dangale  welcome to scouter.com

[scoutldr 732]

Linked-Troop-FAQ-091722.pdf (scouting.org)

[mrjohns2 582]

Well, there are no exceptions. The girl troop needs more registered female leaders. If one can't attend, the girl troop members can't attend. They can't even "tag along". 

[dangale 4]

2 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

Well, there are no exceptions. The girl troop needs more registered female leaders. If one can't attend, the girl troop members can't attend. They can't even "tag along". 

That was my assumption but I was asked to look into it. Frustrating situation as we are trying to grow and encourage our Girl's Troop but only have two of the moms who are able or interested in being involved. We definitely need more female registered leaders, but it's been a challenge and of course it is hard to have to tell the Scouts they can't attend, as well as their parents, who don't understand why they can't camp with their own kids in this situation. Thank you for your feedback. 

[MikeS72 437]

1 hour ago, dangale said:

That was my assumption but I was asked to look into it. Frustrating situation as we are trying to grow and encourage our Girl's Troop but only have two of the moms who are able or interested in being involved. We definitely need more female registered leaders, but it's been a challenge and of course it is hard to have to tell the Scouts they can't attend, as well as their parents, who don't understand why they can't camp with their own kids in this situation. Thank you for your feedback. 

While this may not help you with this particular situation, do you have any female leaders registered with the boy troop who would be willing to be registered as a multiple registration with the girl troop?

[mrjohns2 582]

7 hours ago, dangale said:

We definitely need more female registered leaders, but it's been a challenge and of course it is hard to have to tell the Scouts they can't attend, as well as their parents, who don't understand why they can't camp with their own kids in this situation.

We  have used this very reason to have more moms register. We have them on the committee to help with BOR and a backup for campouts. We have had parents rush through YPT and applications in the nick of time. 

[ToKindle96 19]

I'm pretty sure those parents wouldn't be able to attend anyway... at least as of 9/1... unless they are registered. The exception is for cubs but I don't believe there are exceptions for Scouts BSA.

[qwazse 4345]

Send an urgent request to your district/council camping committee.

When I was a crew advisor, I often leaned on other units for that second female adult.

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

@dangale,  as @ToKindle96 pointed out, unless all adults are registered in a unit position, MBCs no longer count, adults can no longer camp with troops, ships, posts, and crews effective  this weekend.

[DannyG 69]

Would any of the moms on the camping trip like to become registered leaders?

Please note, as  @ToKindle96 posted: 

Quote

(Effective September 1, 2023)

All adults staying overnight in connection with a Scouting activity must be currently registered as an adult volunteer or an adult program participant.  Adult volunteers must register in the position(s) they are serving in. Registration as a merit badge counselor position does not meet this requirement.

Parents cannot camp overnight on a scouting activity unless they are a registered volunteer.  

If this is an unofficial gathering of friends, that's different.   Then everyone is just camping out as families. It is not a sanctioned scout event.

 

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

1 hour ago, DannyG said:

If this is an unofficial gathering of friends, that's different.   Then everyone is just camping out as families. It is not a sanctioned scout event.

I would not go there. It is putting you and your CO in legal danger if something happens.

[dangale 4]

Thank you everyone for all of the input - as it turns out, the girl's troop member planning to attend are now not going, so that simplified things in this case. It is, however, good to have this discussion and clearly, we need to get more female adult leaders registered. Easier said than done but I will be meeting with everyone soon to discuss this so they understand the limitations we are under and why this is critical, as the last thing I want to do is leave them out of outings due to lack of leaders. And yes, things are getting further complicated with the new BSA leader rules - I understand the challenges BSA is facing in regard to past YPT violations and the need to a "tighter ship", but of course this new rule is going to make things extra challenging to continue many of our traditional outings. So once again, time for a meeting with parents to discuss the need for an increase in registered leaders. 

[DannyG 69]

15 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I would not go there. It is putting you and your CO in legal danger if something happens.

Agreed. But there are units that have a history of family campouts in their program. National should know. Their reqs don't seem to cover that. Except for Cub Scouts, who are strictly family-camping only. Should there be something in-between?

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

39 minutes ago, DannyG said:

Agreed. But there are units that have a history of family campouts in their program. National should know. Their reqs don't seem to cover that. Except for Cub Scouts, who are strictly family-camping only. Should there be something in-between?

Again, I would follow current BSA policies, and cancel family camping. And looking at the Age Appropriate Guidelines Chart, https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/680-685.pdf?_gl=1*1cs29xm*_ga*OTQ3ODk0MTA5LjE2OTAzMDE3Nzk.*_ga_20G0JHESG4*MTY5MzMxNTg2My40LjEuMTY5MzMxNTg4NC4zOS4wLjA.&_ga=2.6422011.839612725.1693315864-947894109.1690301779 , Family Camping has not been listed as an approved Scouts BSA activity since at least August 2021.

As for making it "an unofficial gathering of friends" You are putting the Scouters and CO in legal and financial danger if anything happens. BSA has thrown thousands of COs under the bus with the bankruptcy, what makes you think they would not throw you under the bus?

It is not worth it.