Introverted Scouts

[5thGenTexan 504]

So, we have several Scouts who are more introverted.  Scouts that by thier nature don't run to volunteer to be first.  The kind that sort if stand off to the side waiting to be prompted to participate.  I tend to be more introverted myself, so I understand.  It's a personality trait you don't just try to "teach" away by encouraging people to be more outgoing.  Would it be wrong to invite those Scouts on a Patrol campout where they will have more opportunity to participate without the rowdy crowd?

[qwazse 4345]

If you’ve seen how they behave on campouts enough to think that it’s their personality and not lack of skills, I think it’s a great idea.

My SM took a lot of time with us as individuals, and it was a good thing. For example, on one campout in the back of a fellow scout’s cow pasture, he came up to me with a capped metal tube and said, “I think you’ll find this interesting.” It was a WW-1 canvas box kite. Indeed, I was one of the few boys who were still mucking about with kites at that age, so I took to flying it while my patrol went about KP. It gave me the freedom to have my “introvert” space. And, once I had it aloft, it gave me something that I could hand off to other scouts when it was my shift to do something.

[5thGenTexan 504]

7 minutes ago, qwazse said:

If you’ve seen how they behave on campouts enough to think that it’s their personality and not lack of skills, I think it’s a great idea.

My SM took a lot of time with us as individuals, and it was a good thing. For example, on one campout in the back of a fellow scout’s cow pasture, he came up to me with a capped metal tube and said, “I think you’ll find this interesting.” It was a WW-1 canvas box kite. Indeed, I was one of the few boys who were still mucking about with kites at that age, so I took to flying it while my patrol went about KP. It gave me the freedom to have my “introvert” space. And, once I had it aloft, it gave me something that I could hand off to other scouts when it was my shift to do something.

I know there are Scouts that will never offer their ideas for menus because of other Scouts who are loud and outgoing.  I know they will stand back and not cook because there is someone else jumping in to do it first.  Its the Scouts that don't have that me first, I gotta win and be first attitude.  So, yeah we do have those Scouts that sit back and dont jump to the front just because its not how they are.

[qwazse 4345]

BTW, it doesn’t have to be a campout. Small service projects that only need a handful of guys are great ways for introverts to find their way in the troop.

[DuctTape 1231]

One of the most challenging aspects of leadership (in Scouts and elsewhere) is for leaders to involve all of their members in processes not just the loud-out-in-front ones. Asking a Scout Leader (PL, SPL etc...) the question of how to ensure all members are "heard" and have the opportunity to truly participate regardless of the member's personality is an ongoing discussion I have my with Leaders.

For any issue the discussion wioth my PLs uses this:

1. Identify the concern.

2. Evaluate current practice(s).

3. Brainstorm alternative/modifications to practice(s).

4. Implement and re-evaluate.

Meal planning was mentioned, IME this is typically where the discussion begins b/c it is the most common area where "quiet" scouts are not heard. Many of my leaders when it comes to meal planning realize the "group discussion" is not very effective nor efficient and land on a process something like:

PL: Assigns a grub master for the patrol.

GM: Selects an assistant. (all GM duties are assisted by AGM and the PL/APL as a resource.)

GM: speaks with all patrol mates individually to "know" what they like, dislike, allergies, favorites etc... They keep this info in some sort of binder, whether it is paper or digital.

GM: Makes meal plan based on the individual needs/desires of those attending the event (also taking into consideration the type of event).

GM: Brings plan to PL to review.

PL & GM: Present plan to Patrol for final approval

GM: Keeps plan in "binder" for future use..

note: GM also needs to know what cooking equipment is needed so the the Patrol QM can be sure it is brought (this begins the process  of planning ahead and not bringing the entire trailer.)

One reason many land on this is it also part of the larger discussion with the PLs about training the "next level". And yes, it does take a LONG time to get here and is easily dismantled (mostly by adults).

[5thGenTexan 504]

50 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

One of the most challenging aspects of leadership (in Scouts and elsewhere) is for leaders to involve all of their members in processes not just the loud-out-in-front ones. Asking a Scout Leader (PL, SPL etc...) the question of how to ensure all members are "heard" and have the opportunity to truly participate regardless of the member's personality is an ongoing discussion I have my with Leaders.

For any issue the discussion wioth my PLs uses this:

1. Identify the concern.

2. Evaluate current practice(s).

3. Brainstorm alternative/modifications to practice(s).

4. Implement and re-evaluate.

Meal planning was mentioned, IME this is typically where the discussion begins b/c it is the most common area where "quiet" scouts are not heard. Many of my leaders when it comes to meal planning realize the "group discussion" is not very effective nor efficient and land on a process something like:

PL: Assigns a grub master for the patrol.

GM: Selects an assistant. (all GM duties are assisted by AGM and the PL/APL as a resource.)

GM: speaks with all patrol mates individually to "know" what they like, dislike, allergies, favorites etc... They keep this info in some sort of binder, whether it is paper or digital.

GM: Makes meal plan based on the individual needs/desires of those attending the event (also taking into consideration the type of event).

GM: Brings plan to PL to review.

PL & GM: Present plan to Patrol for final approval

GM: Keeps plan in "binder" for future use..

note: GM also needs to know what cooking equipment is needed so the the Patrol QM can be sure it is brought (this begins the process  of planning ahead and not bringing the entire trailer.)

One reason many land on this is it also part of the larger discussion with the PLs about training the "next level". And yes, it does take a LONG time to get here and is easily dismantled (mostly by adults).

Our youth leadership doesn't do that nor do the adults.  I'm looking at a way to help the Scouts who are overlooked.

[MattR 2659]

Try divying up responsibilities. When the game is swarm ball and everyone decides and does everything together then most watch while a few actually get anything done. If there's a duty roster or multiple things to do at the same time then more scouts will be getting things done and the shy scouts will have to help out.

So, split up making menus from figuring out gear, for example.

[DuctTape 1231]

3 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

Our youth leadership doesn't do that nor do the adults.  I'm looking at a way to help the Scouts who are overlooked.

I hear you. And the adults not modeling it makes it even more difficult.  The solution is to get the scout leaders (and adults) to speak with individual scouts separate from the group as the means to not overlook them. When everything is done "as a group" this only facilitates participation by those whose personality thrives in that type of situation. Encourage (and model) more individualized communication protocols.

I would begin with the  4-step process outlined above with the ADULTS and move towards the following:

For the adults, the SM needs to speak individually with the SPL (not with the entire PLC). Second. ASMs need to reorganized to mentor POR like QM, Librarian, Scribe, etc... and not interfere with Patrols.

Then with the scouts...

Step one, I would start with eliminating "troop announcements". The SPL should go to speak with the PLs individually, then circle back to them to see if they have any questions, concenrs or needs.

Step two, the PLs eliminate "Patrol Based Decisions" and each Patrol Leader assign specific patrol positions to the members (GrubMaster, Cheermaster, APL, QM, etc...) These positions need to have specific duties and responsibilities clearly identified. 

This is just me thinking out loud with what I interpret to be your situation. YMMV.

 

[5thGenTexan 504]

5 hours ago, MattR said:

Try divying up responsibilities. When the game is swarm ball and everyone decides and does everything together then most watch while a few actually get anything done. If there's a duty roster or multiple things to do at the same time then more scouts will be getting things done and the shy scouts will have to help out.

So, split up making menus from figuring out gear, for example.

I have on numerous occasions talked about a duty roster.  They dont know what that is, seriously.  SM and ASM wont even back me on getting a duty roster completed.  I know for a fact on the last Camporee they did not even plan a menu.  I talked to the adult that asked my kid what he wanted to eat and that adult was buying groceries to take to camp for the weekend.

[BetterWithCheddar 125]

6 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

I have on numerous occasions talked about a duty roster.  They don't know what that is, seriously. 

I hate to circle back to this because it doesn't sound like it's part of your troop program, but I'm in agreement with what other have suggested ~ some type of job rotation will help boost the introverts' participation without feeling like they're being crowded out by the more assertive kids.

If troop leadership has proven to be too stubborn, can get you get in the ear of the SPL? You don't have to push for wholesale change from the start ~ maybe just try asking them for their thoughts on how to improve participation for one outing and see how that goes?

[DuctTape 1231]

8 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

I have on numerous occasions talked about a duty roster.  They dont know what that is, seriously.  SM and ASM wont even back me on getting a duty roster completed.  I know for a fact on the last Camporee they did not even plan a menu.  I talked to the adult that asked my kid what he wanted to eat and that adult was buying groceries to take to camp for the weekend.

Sadly it does not appear, from what you have described, that this is a real scout troop.  They might have a charter and a unit, but the adults are completely missing the point. 

If the adults do not see this as an issue, and are not willing to listen, learn and change then the only other option is to find a "real" scout troop. 

[DannyG 69]

The quiet scouts will eventually find their place in the troop. It's not even that they are being left out... Introverted scouts revel in going with the flow. It's not even worth pushing them to be more outgoing. Let them be and they will find a place. Early on, I was in ear-shot of my son's new scout patrol putting together a mealplan on one of their first camping trips. My son let GM plan an entire weekend of meals he didn't like and he didn't say a word. Instead he went from patrol to patrol on the campout trading away food he didn't like for something else.    Scouts will find a way.

The quiet will eventually find their strength and they will rise up to fill a demand. I wouldn't even try to force it. Growing up I was one of the quiet, introverted scouts too.

Duty roster is a great way to get all members of a patrol involved... Give each patrol a job to do, and they find a way to divvy up responsibility so each one gets a turn.

[yknot 1338]

8 minutes ago, DannyG said:

The quiet scouts will eventually find their place in the troop. It's not even that they are being left out... Introverted scouts revel in going with the flow. It's not even worth pushing them to be more outgoing. Let them be and they will find a place.

 

I've seen the opposite occur when the program unduly values extroversion over introversion; a significant percentage of less extroverted scouts eventually leave. There's a good book I've recommended here before -- Quiet: The power of introverts in a world that can't stop talking.

[DannyG 69]

1 hour ago, yknot said:

I've seen the opposite occur when the program unduly values extroversion over introversion; a significant percentage of less extroverted scouts eventually leave. There's a good book I've recommended here before -- Quiet: The power of introverts in a world that can't stop talking.

I should add: using the patrol method will find a place for those scouts to fit in. Put the quiet scouts in a small group with 5 or 6 of their peers, give the patrol a job to do, and they will find ways to share responsibility amongst themselves. If they are always in a room with dozens of boisterous scouts, then yes the quiet ones will retreat. You do have to find the group your scout works best with. Not all units are the same.

I'll have to find that book. Sounds like an interesting read.

[yknot 1338]

34 minutes ago, DannyG said:

I should add: using the patrol method will find a place for those scouts to fit in. Put the quiet scouts in a small group with 5 or 6 of their peers, give the patrol a job to do, and they will find ways to share responsibility amongst themselves. If they are always in a room with dozens of boisterous scouts, then yes the quiet ones will retreat. You do have to find the group your scout works best with. Not all units are the same.

I'll have to find that book. Sounds like an interesting read.

It's a good book. It changed my outlook on the topic and made me take a hard look at the advancement and youth leadership development process in scouting.