Just For Fun

[Stosh 3452]

In this day and age of high tech equipment, LED lighting, solar rechargeable cell phones, STEM, EDGE, S.M.A.R.T. GPS, velcro where's the future of scouting headed? 

 

When the power grid go out and the last drop of fossil fuel is used up in the generator, what's left in our society?

 

 

[JoeBob 606]

Ha!

Your topo has more info for me than this:

 

https://www.bing.com/mapspreview?encType=1&where1=Watanga%20Mountain%2c%20Colorado&cp=40.1683387756348~-105.714263916016&qpvt=watanga+mountain&FORM=MIRE

[RememberSchiff 3683]

[Stosh 3452]

The Mrs. and I went to TX and OK on two recent trips.  I used the TomTom she used the Google Maps.  Which worked better?  Neither!  Roads that didn't exist, spent a ton of time driving out in the fields telling us to get back on the main I-Highway, turning the wrong way onto a one-way street.  Signs pointing one way to an event, GPS telling you to go another.

 

Fortunately my Mrs. has navigated herself around the back woods of Alaska working for the US Forestry Service that a simple road map got us to where we needed to be.

 

"Death by GPS" is not for the off-roads crowd anymore, it's a reality for everyone.!

[Stosh 3452]

Ever wonder why kids today walk around with their Nike's untied?  Could it possibly be they don't know how to?

[Krampus 696]

@@Stosh, I chase storms every spring using GPS and road maps. Most of my driving is in TX and OK. Only had minor issues...and we're talking some minor, minor roads...using Google Maps.

 

The accuracy of the information you receive can actually be tied to your device, the performance of your device (e.g., Do you have a bunch of other apps open competing for location services? Do you have a bunch of apps open competing for compute cycles? etc.) and the amount of storage available on your device (e.g., Do you have room for cached information or does your device need to keep requesting updated static map data?). You cell provider may also be to blame. If you are in a low service area (especially in Texas and OK) you may be competing with too many people for the same transponder.

 

Storm chasers know to have their GPS units in prime condition, free from other background apps and plenty of storage room. They also carry maps and a PND (personal navigation device) like a handheld GPS unit as back up.

 

In short, it may not be the app. It could be your phone, your cell provider, your location, the number of people around you, EMF interference in the area or a combination of any of these things. The navigation algorithms used by Google, and their data centers that run the application calculations, are some of the most robust in the world. The log jam is at the device and location level. 

Edited January 9, 2016 by Krampus

[Stosh 3452]

Thanks, Krampus, I know the TomTom is wrong a lot of the times, and Google Maps is better but not foolproof.  The thought that I had with the whole dependence on our technology (and not printed maps) is that the ultimate Zombie what-if attack and there's loss of all technology..... Are we beyond the catastrophic energy collapse so we can rely 100% on these things or will the possibility occur when we will actually have to survive for even as little as a few days on "old technology" like maps and compasses or even finding one's way without even those basic tools?  People used to be able to do that.  Can they still and is it necessary to teach the next generation?

 

It got me thinking after my old PC crapped out on me, I lost my whole set up, now I'm on an old Dell from the 1990's running Linux and getting by.

 

When I was in college studying business administration, my finance teacher mentioned that General Motors was a company comparable or greater in wealth as compared to most 3rd World Countries.  He said GM was to big to fail.   We all smiled and agreed with him without a second thought.

 

Where are we putting our eggs in today's basket?  What odds are we doubling down on?  Maybe being a Luddite isn't such a bad thing as our naive grandchildren claim.

[Krampus 696]

Even back in "the old days" I would wager most people could not read maps. Folks would memorize landscapes and landmarks rather than bother with maps. I suspect the maps skills of the masses were better back then than today, there's no debate there.

 

As with anything, Having a back up of any kind in useful. Having a non-technical back up to a technical solution is also good. Having a second non-technical back up to a non-technical tool is further useful

 

Case in Point: This summer we were hiking in the CO wilderness. We were going to another camp during the night for a campfire which was about two miles from our camp. The guys used the map fine. Every quarter mile (or major turn) I encouraged them to turn around and take mental note about the trail and their surroundings. Why? Obviously, knowing what the landscape looks like on the way back is just as important as to how it looks on the way there.

 

Oddly enough, the GPS unit was out back up that night. I dropped a locator pin for our camp and turned the unit off. When the guys got a bit off track using their map and memory we were able to get back on track using both non-technical and technical means.

[Stosh 3452]

I used that looking back technique any time I knew I was going to do a return trip.  Saved me a ton of times.  It surprising how different the trail looks depending on which way one is traveling.

 

So then I am assuming you are on the mandatory Luddite training for the boys? 

 

There are a ton of examples were "guys" get their new 4-wheeler and head out into the desert only to get lost and some have even died.  They relied on GPS and when gas runs out and batteries do too, a modern day scenario for disaster is readily apparent.

 

The best example I had was when I was in Philmont.  Boys were following the map, arguing, voting on directions, etc. and all I had was my compass, no map.  At least I knew the general direction I was supposed to go and the general direction we were going.  Well they dug themselves into quite a hole, but from the last camp to the place we were, I had a pretty good idea how to get back to the original trail we were supposed to be on.    Needless to say, simply heading out from the old camp following a trail without taking an initial reading of direction will have them pretty much messed up by noon.

 

They got a lesson in triangulation and we did get to the next camp before sundown. 

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

Thread reminds me of an incident a few years back. I had to make a trip with expected bad weather and one of the interstates closed for a long section due to rock slides. I had the alternate route planned, and a back up route planned in case the snowstorm hit earlier. I got to the funeral OK, but decided to leave early to avoid the snowstorm. Well, my father, sister, and brother were freaking out because I was leaving early to take the backup route without a GPS unit. They could not understand how I could plan a way home with only a map.

 

Now here is where it gets funny. Previously I rode with sis and her GPS, and road consruction threw both the unit and my sister off. I had to piont out the detour signs after several attempts to follow TomTom. Well on the way home, there was a major accident that shut down the road I needed to take. I bet if I only had TomTom, I'd still be stuck. I was able to pull intoa parkinglot, get my bearings, and use the map I had to create Plan D and get home safely.

[Stosh 3452]

I lived in North Dakota for 3 years, that is 3 winters.  I knew the compass bearings to each of my neighbors' doors and to the service door on my garage.  The Mrs. thought it was a bit over-kill.  But when one goes out on the back stoop to "let the dog out" one makes sure the dog is securely tied before going out the door because even at night with the porch light on 2 feet from the house one cannot see their hand in front of their face.  One hangs on tightly to the knob of the back door.  People have died in a blizzard trying to get to their neighbor's house when the heat went out in their own.  By the way this is not in the rural area, it is in town!  Like I said, I knew the bearing for the door on the detached garage.

[SSScout 1616]

Scoutson works for a local farmer delivering hay bales, feed firewood etc.  to folks around and in the Wash DC area.  He (finally, according to his mother) accepted a "smart phone" with Blue Tooth and Walkie Talkie capability.  He says that the 4" screen is fine if he is already "in the area", but he has been well trained by his dad to trust and look at the map books he carries to GET him "in the area".

 

True story:   Family finally got our act together 4 years ago and we got to Hawaii for a nice vacation. On the Big Island, everyone said we MUST visit Waimea Falls. Beauty, history, swimming, hiking, you just HAVE to visit Waimea Falls . So, one morning we set out from the hotel for Waimea Falls, I driving, wife in passenger seat, Scoutson and brother in the rear.  Scoutson pulls out the AAA map and guidebook, wife says "oh, no, I can get us there with the GPS/Smartphone" and I proceed to follow her directions. We turn here, turn there, pretty soon we are in the middle of a subdivision that could have been back home in Murlin except for the palm trees.  Eventually, we are stopped , on a gravel road, facing a chain link fence and locked gate.  I say," this can't be  right" and when I look up to the left , there, on the fence , is a hand painted sign that reads: "NOT WAIMEA FALLS".   I say to Scoutson, who has the camera,  "Take the picture!!"

 

We turn around, go back down the mountain, and in about 20 minutes, with the help of the AAAmap, arrive at Waimea Falls State Park.   It is worth the effort, go see it when you are in the islands.  

[NJCubScouter 1389]

In this day and age of high tech equipment, LED lighting, solar rechargeable cell phones, STEM, EDGE, S.M.A.R.T. GPS, velcro where's the future of scouting headed?

Velcro? That "day and age" started more than 40 years ago.

[RememberSchiff 3683]

Velcro? That "day and age" started more than 40 years ago.

Yes 1957. We didn't find out they were Vulcans until years later. 

[Stosh 3452]

Velcro? That "day and age" started more than 40 years ago.

 

It depends on your perspective..... I remember Sputnik, that was high tech, velcro and Tang came along later. 

 

Cell phones?  Nope, picked up the receiver, when the operator came on you told her who you wanted to talk to.  If Mom wasn't home, not a problem, she knew where she was. and made the connection.....   It was a few years later we had to start remembering the 3 digit phone number.  Buddy next door was 119.  

 

There still were outhouses in the backyards of some of the homes in the neighborhood. 

 

First floor had 4 classrooms for the first 8 grades, two to a room, the rest of the building was high school.  No pre-school or kindergarten.

 

We learned to square dance in phy ed.

 

Used a high tech fork prong to pull the little round cap out of the glass milk bottle during lunch break.

 

Coal was delivered and the cinders were used for the driveway. 

 

Seriously people, I'm not that old either.  But I still have my Silva handy and my Yucca pack is in the back of my truck with winter emergency equipment right now.

 

My dad was 20 years older than me, and he had the good stories about the Great Depression and WW II.  The Renaissance "explosion" of technology of the 20th century is rather remarkable and it encompasses the complete history of the BSA.  The original Handbook for Boys gave instruction on how to stop a runaway horse.