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Another troop dropped by their CO

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Being part of the Scouting movement in America for 50+ years isn't necessarily the blessing everyone wishes it to be.  Maybe the only consolation the old guard can retain is the idea that for a brief moment, they where one of the few that got a chance to be part of the Golden Age of Scouting in America. 

 

This, of course, is at the very heart of the conflicts that have grown around the BSA ever since "Dale vs the BSA".  If you refer to the last 30 years of scouting as the "golden age" then we are in sharp disagreement.  To me these were the dark ages of scouting, when we diverted from a cultural icon to a restrictive movement.  Hopefully we are now heading into a more open membership environment (notice that this more "liberal" scouting movement is making no attempt to remove any conservative groups from the membership).

 

Will the new scouting movement be the one I love and remember from the 1960s?  The one that didn't separate entire classes of citizens as being unfit for membership?  Probably not.  As you say we can only go forward.  

 

Jim

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"Entire classes of citizens"? You mean girls? Did we decide to accept them now or are they still bared? I guess we can't "go forward" until we stop discriminating against all "classes of citizens" right?

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By entire classes of citizens I meant gays and the irreligious.  During my years in scouting we had no rules barring these "classes" of people.  I don't recall any discussions about admitting girls at that time, although as I have posted before, the admission of girls into the Explorer program was seen then and now as a huge success.

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"Entire classes of citizens"? You mean girls? Did we decide to accept them now or are they still bared? I guess we can't "go forward" until we stop discriminating against all "classes of citizens" right?

 I do hope you meant "barred"  and not "bared".   Heaven forbid no one thinks we are trying to bare any female members....

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(notice that this more "liberal" scouting movement is making no attempt to remove any conservative groups from the membership).

 

Jim

Not in writing, but there was and is no lack of demonizing, name calling, and belittling at the conservatives to bully for liberal change. Not very scout like, but they what they want. Of course The liberals lost their souls in the process because they sold off morality for cultural high ground. As the Girl Scouts, Campfire Kids and the Canadians have learned, a values teaching program can't grow in an environment of compromising morals and ethic principles.

 

Barry

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Not in writing, but there was and is no lack of demonizing, name calling, and belittling at the conservatives to bully for liberal change. Not very scout like, but they what they want. Of course The liberals lost their souls in the process because they sold off morality for cultural high ground. As the Girl Scouts, Campfire Kids and the Canadians have learned, a values teaching program can't grow in an environment of compromising morals and ethic principles.

 

Barry

I agree with you and also agree that this bullying is not productive.  As others have noted there is bad behavior on both sides of the aisle.  But I think it is very important to note that as liberal thinking has won recent victories within the BSA there has been no attempt to remove any of the conservative groups that had so much to do with altering the direction of the BSA back in the 1980s.

 

Jim

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Sorry ghjim but THESE are the dark days of Scouting.  Most of what you talk about since Dale vs. BSA is mythology being perpetrated by adults who seek to validate their own lifestyle or political philosophies.  Scouting's stance since before Dale vs. BSA until very recently was holding to age old traditions and values.  The liberal wing that has hijacked Scouting has been trying to push out social conservatives which is why their reaction to Trail Life USA and other groups was what it was:  instead of seeing the long-term threat to Scouting in general, they rejoiced in their departure because it enhances their hijacking.

 

Scouting didn't need to bar open homosexuals and atheists when they weren't pushing their agenda through society.  It became an issue because the homosexuals and atheists tried to force acceptance and endorsement of their lifestyle choices on "pillars" of American society.  I'm not a mind reader so don't know for sure but I believe they chose this route instead of forming their own groups because it's been about forcing society to validate and endorse their choices rather than actually providing opportunities to kids.

 

Time will tell how much or long my departure from Scouting will last -- and therefore how long and frequently I return to this forum.  If I don't, these are advance good wishes for those of you continuing with the program regardless of where you reside on this issue.

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I agree with you and also agree that this bullying is not productive.  As others have noted there is bad behavior on both sides of the aisle.  But I think it is very important to note that as liberal thinking has won recent victories within the BSA there has been no attempt to remove any of the conservative groups that had so much to do with altering the direction of the BSA back in the 1980s.

 

Jim

Jim, let's be fair about this, your magnanimous attempt to show the recent liberal changes as taking a more noble direction is sadly disrespectful of past leaders. There was no visible altering of the program as you suggest and I've never heard of any scout being asked to leave because they were part of a group that the BSA restricts from the adult membership because they wanted these young men to experience a values oriented program. I know there are a handful examples law suits in the news, but the reality is that vaste majority of adult leaders wanted every boy to have a chance.

 

Barry

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@@ghjim

 

What I refer to as the Golden Age of Scouting was the first 50, maybe 60 years of scouting.  Since 1970-ish, thing have changed and changed dramatically, most of which was not for the betterment of the program nor it's membership.

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@@ghjim

 

What I refer to as the Golden Age of Scouting was the first 50, maybe 60 years of scouting.  Since 1970-ish, thing have changed and changed dramatically, most of which was not for the betterment of the program nor it's membership.

You mean like same age patrols, NSPs, patrol guides and Venture patrols? LOL

 

Barry

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By entire classes of citizens I meant gays and the irreligious.  During my years in scouting we had no rules barring these "classes" of people.  I don't recall any discussions about admitting girls at that time, although as I have posted before, the admission of girls into the Explorer program was seen then and now as a huge success.

We still don't allow a group of humans. So it's okay to gender discriminate but not discriminate against unreligious people? Not quite sure I follow that logic. You're either for breaking down barriers or you're not. Can't see how you justify it any other way.

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You mean like same age patrols, NSPs, patrol guides and Venture patrols? LOL

 

Barry

 

All of these "innovations" occurred in the last 25 years.  IMO, they -- like most of National's changes to the program in the last 25 years -- were irrelevant at best and most likely contributed to the degradation of the program over the years.

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You mean like same age patrols, NSPs, patrol guides and Venture patrols? LOL

Barry

Don't use any of these things. Maybe that's why we succeed. ;)

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On the other hand, I have seen all of these work well in troops.  Maybe having been a UC, one realizes that there are many ways of running a successful troop.

 

I was once an ASM for a very successful troop that had a very experienced, iron-fisted, WB/Silver Beaver SM.  Most of the units in the district were envious of what he was able to do.  The troop alternated between Philmont and Sea Base.  He also rotated around to 4-5 different summer camps. The troop attended every National Jamboree.  All adults were trained to the WB level.  They were also the corp of MB counselors that serviced the troop only.  They were identified as a "Quaity Unit" every year.  There were no same aged patrols, no NSP's, no patrol guides, no venture patrols.  There were no patrols whatsoever,  The troop trailer functioned as the troop kitchen.  Every year he would take on 20-25 new boys and by the end of the year, they always ended up with about 20-25 hold outs of the elite from the group moving on to eventual Eagle.  They produced a ton of Eagles over the years with some ECOH's having 5-6 Scouts being honored.  Hundreds of boys never made it through their first year.

 

Eventually he was kicked out of scouting.  What one person defines as success another may not be what others see as success.

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Maybe having been a UC, one realizes that there are many ways of running a successful troop.

 

Glad to hear that Stosh, that's quite a reversal. Your "my-way or the highway take no prisoners" approach to contributing on this forum doesn't work well where different ideas are welcome for different folks with different personalities and circumstances. Glade to have you on board.

 

Barry

 

 

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