blw2 433 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Our 2nd year WEBELOS den is continuing with the old program to finish up The DL and I were doing some planning yesterday, and we were discussing a boy that has been with us since Tiger but has never been all that into the requirements and earning rank. in fact a few years he never finished them.... he didn't get his WEBELOS badge last year Honestly, I don't think he cares about rank, he's just in it for fun. He comes to some meetings, just for fun. He's not what i would call overly active & he goes for long plugs with no attendance. Some was due to illness But he's consistent anyway. A real positive attitude, an older brother in scouts, and good parents anyway, at the first meeting, the DL is planning to review the Boy Scout Joining Requirements completed 5th grade or 11 YO or 10 YO + AOL so that everyone knows the end goal.... "Do you want it or not?" This boy will be 10 at crossover time, and in the 5th grade.... We feel it would be a shame for him to not be able to cross the bridge, IF HE WANTS IT, with his den So, our question Assuming he wants it We were wondering if the new AOL rank program might be a better option for him, depending on how far along he really is with his WEBELOS badge work... Is it possible to run through the new AOL rank program in the new book, for a crossover in January? Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle94-A1 2687 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 A few comments, and not trying to be a P.I.T.B. Officially since he didn't earn the Webelos badge before May 31, 2015, HE MUST USE THE NEW REQUIREMENTS FOR AOL (underlining and caps are emphasis, not shouting) Unofficially, I've heard of packs "modifying" the date the Webelos Badge was earned. In regards to the NEW requirements, it is suppose to take 7 months. Stuff he did over the summer can count since he became an Arrow of Light Cub Scout on June 1st. An aside, since the Webelos badge is no longer required, it is possible for a 4th grade Webelos to start work directly on the Arrow of Light badge. I think somone screwed up at national on that , but I know my middle son is using it to his advantage. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
blw2 433 Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 A few comments, and not trying to be a P.I.T.B. Officially since he didn't earn the Webelos badge before May 31, 2015, HE MUST USE THE NEW REQUIREMENTS FOR AOL (underlining and caps are emphasis, not shouting) Well, I can't believe i didn't think of that. Good point! Pencil whipping never sits right with me, so I'll make sure this is known but at the same time if he's a good way along on his WEBELOS in the old system, I'm not so sure I wouldn't "look the other way".... .... In regards to the NEW requirements, it is suppose to take 7 months. Stuff he did over the summer can count since he became an Arrow of Light Cub Scout on June 1st. An aside, since the Webelos badge is no longer required, it is possible for a 4th grade Webelos to start work directly on the Arrow of Light badge. I think somone screwed up at national on that , but I know my middle son is using it to his advantage. 7 months eh? So figuring that most packs are like us, and get started up sometime in September, then they are shooting for crossovers round about March then? Nice! Our pack for some reason is driving to do it in January this year, so this could be tough for a boy like this. Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4350 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Two many options make for a mess. It sounds like you should just tell the boy to work the new program. And, you should use the "stealth advancement" approach ... Surely some of the stuff he did for his Webelos badge fulfills AoL requirements? I'd see what you could check off from all the stuff he did. Fill out a chart of what he's done and show it to him. Then give him the option of completing the other half, and bridging in January or not worrying about it, and crossing over when he turns 11 or graduates 5th grade. Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) Our 2nd year WEBELOS den is continuing with the old program to finish up The DL and I were doing some planning yesterday, and we were discussing a boy that has been with us since Tiger but has never been all that into the requirements and earning rank. in fact a few years he never finished them.... he didn't get his WEBELOS badge last year Honestly, I don't think he cares about rank, he's just in it for fun. He comes to some meetings, just for fun. He's not what i would call overly active & he goes for long plugs with no attendance. Some was due to illness But he's consistent anyway. A real positive attitude, an older brother in scouts, and good parents anyway, at the first meeting, the DL is planning to review the Boy Scout Joining Requirements completed 5th grade or 11 YO or 10 YO + AOL so that everyone knows the end goal.... "Do you want it or not?" This boy will be 10 at crossover time, and in the 5th grade.... We feel it would be a shame for him to not be able to cross the bridge, IF HE WANTS IT, with his den So, our question Assuming he wants it We were wondering if the new AOL rank program might be a better option for him, depending on how far along he really is with his WEBELOS badge work... Is it possible to run through the new AOL rank program in the new book, for a crossover in January? Seriously???? And this is why this "rank advancement" requirements are basic BS in my book. The boy shows up. He has fun. He has a good attitude and we're going to punish him with no crossing-over because he didn't do all the stuff to make the adults feel good about not pencil whipping his "advancement". Well, there is NO ADVANCEMENT IN CUB SCOUTS! Along with having fun, if they wish they may work towards an award (did I mention this is not advancement, but just an award?????) The boy will some day move from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts, THAT IS THE CROSS-OVER THE BRIDGE THINGY! It doesn't make any difference what awards he has received, whether or not he had 75% attendance or any of the other adult created rules to punish the boy for not paying attention. Arts and crafty stuff might not be his goal in life, but maybe being with his brother on Boy Scout campouts might. He might be a late bloomer, but if one turns him off from the program just when it might catch on, it's a total failure on the part of the adults, not the boy. Maybe he'll just do Boy Scouts the same way.... show up and have fun. I'd take him in my troop any day!!! If this boy was Tiger through Webelos, never was awarded any of the age appropriate awards and did not do his AOL stuff. So what. He was there, he had fun, it's time to cross-over from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts. If the pack won't do it. Ask the troop to cross him over, a good SM will be happy to do that to welcome him into the troop! Edited August 19, 2015 by Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
NJCubScouter 1389 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Ask the troop to cross him over, a good SM will be happy to do that to welcome him into the troop! But if he hasn't earned the Arrow of Light, he won't be eligible to join a Boy Scout troop until he does, or until he turns 11 or completes the fifth grade. Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Maybe no one else noticed, but I don't think this boy is all that interested in the rules and regulations. He can still cross over the bridge and take a little break until his birthday or the end of June which ever comes first. He'll be registered as a Scout and still attend Boy Scout meetings FOR FUN as a visitor until then. Oh, but he won't be able to earn any Scout-FC requirements until he officially joins!!! (Please refer back to the first sentence of this post). Link to post Share on other sites
NJCubScouter 1389 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 He'll be registered as a Scout and still attend Boy Scout meetings FOR FUN as a visitor until then. He'll be registered as a Scout, specifically as a Cub Scout. Some troops might allow him to attend the meetings, some might not. On a couple of occasions our troop has had a couple of boys who were "just visiting" for a few months until they became eligible to join the troop. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle94-A1 2687 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Unofficially, I've heard of packs "modifying" the date the Webelos Badge was earned. Want to clarify this as I too am against pencil whipping requirements. Because national did not grandfather Webelos like they are going to do with Boy Scouts, but instead gave a clear cut "earn Webelos badge by May 31 2015 in order to use the (old) requirements," one CM I know put in the badge for May 31, 2015 so that they could continue with the old requirements so they would not have to buy a new book for 6-9 months only. The Webelos in question were finishing up the Webelos Badge the first week of June, and awarded the badge on June 8th at the last pack meeting. Link to post Share on other sites
blw2 433 Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 @@Stosh, I'm with you. It would be different in my mind if he was a bad egg. A trouble maker.... but he's a good kid. I honestly think that he probably will shine more in the troop I don't like the idea of teaching him, or any kid, that it's ok to short cut the program, break the rules, you can get by without doing the work, etc.... So my hope would be to work him through to a "reasonably legit" finish. But in my mind it's not so much about taking it all too seriously. It's not even really about the Cub Scout stuff. It's about helping him to meet the joining requirements for the real "show". Honestly, I suspect the troop would take him regardless.... we're just trying to grease the skids and make it as above board as reasonably possible for him Assuming he wants it. We'll ask him soon enough! Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4350 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 @@Stosh, I'm with you. ... Honestly, I suspect the troop would take him regardless.... we're just trying to grease the skids and make it as above board as reasonably possible for him Assuming he wants it. We'll ask him soon enough! Don't make it about being "above board". It's about him proving that he's prepared to get a head-start with troop life just like his buddies. He can sit in on whatever the troop will let him to sit in on. But we all want him to feel like he deserves to be there. It's like the Good Book says, "Study to show thyself approved." Stepping through AoL is one way for a kid to start thinking "I own this." Coming of age or completing a grade is another way. Being welcomed unconditionally might convey that same feeling. Depends on the troop. What you don't want is the kid to feel like he's getting another "everyone's a winner" trophy. Link to post Share on other sites
blw2 433 Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 I don't disagree with any of that @@qwazse. Well said. all of that is more or less what was meant by "above board".... kinda the greater point of it all I think. But a lot of this is really between this boy, his parents, and God. I think it's fair to say that the DL and I are just looking for his options to help steer him on the path.... Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) Shoot, did it again. Posted in the wrong thread again. I caught it and moved it before my "edit" disappeared. My apologies. Edited August 19, 2015 by Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
gumbymaster 98 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I'm not in favor of backdating awards. Nor am I in favor of blatently ignoring the rules. However, everyone from the Scout through National wants this boy to become a Boy Scout. If he "bridges" with his fellows without the AOL, buy the rules, he still has to wait for June or a birthday to Join the Boy Scouts. If the troop is willing, as a Webelos he can be a recruiting guest, even if that means being a guest for many meetings and camping trips, before he can join. The only real requirement for this method is the Parent (or two of the Webelos Den leaders) would need to participate in these meetings/camps with him until he can join. The only real consequence is, while he could participate in activities (and maybe even use them and the extra time to complete AOL - he's got until June), he could not begin to work on the Boy Scout advancement until he joined; however it also sounds like that's not really a big issue for him. Making him wait, without some form of Scouting to fill the gap, is likely to lead to a loss of interest and eventually not Joining the Scout troop when it is time. Link to post Share on other sites
NJCubScouter 1389 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 The only real requirement for this method is the Parent (or two of the Webelos Den leaders) would need to participate in these meetings/camps with him until he can join. Where does that requirement come from? It seems to me that the two-deep leadership that is already provided by the troop would be sufficient, even if he is a registered member of the pack rather than the troop. As for supervision for members of Webelos dens, I believe that when my son was in Webelos (more than 10 years ago) a parent of each boy had to be present on camping trips (but not meetings), but I thought they had changed that for Webelos since then. Link to post Share on other sites
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