Let's play Unit Commissioner

[Mike F 10]

Come on, guys. Please lay aside the sniper scopes for a second.

 

You're the Unit Commissioner.

Two troops have been described that are in trouble: Dave J's & Bob White's (regardless of what you think about his, it still COULD make for a thought-provoking discussion that I could learn from). And Dave J is asking for our help and instead he's getting a front-row seat to a feud. Let's put the weapons on "safe" and see if we can come up with some ideas. If not for Bob White's Troop A, then for Dave J's, which he says pretty much matches a lot of BW's description.

[Bob White 20]

No Ed, it is in yours.

 

http://www.bsa.net/pa/t1/main.htm

 

Bob White

[Fat Old Guy 11]

Okay Dave, I'd like to know why you're with this troop when you don't belong to the church and don't particularly care for their brand of Scouting?

 

Do you really think that it will be possible to change the mindset of the CO and the committee?

 

Could you convince the church to allow 11 year olds to join the troop and particpate in the other program?

 

Would you be happier in another troop? I didn't see if you said that you have a son in the Troop. If you do, is he being served by the program? Is he happy?

[Bob White 20]

Mike,

You raise a good point but troop A is a real troop also, and since we have the attention, if not the belief of the scoutmaster, I had hoped we could make a difference there first.

 

Dave is in a tough spot, without the support of the committee of the Scoutmaster there is little he can do. It's a shame whenever any unit folds and it almost always has to do with the egos of the leaders.

 

Dave unless you can convince the Charter organization that the solution is training so that everyone knows the scouting way of doing things this unit is going to self-destruct around you. You might bring in an objective outside resource to help. I recommend the District Executive or District Commissioner.

 

As always feel free to private message me if you would like some help without the static of some of the negative posters that my posts generate.

 

[evmori 11]

Thanks for promoting my Troop, Bob! I owe you one!

 

Accurately portraying a situation would also help. Of the 13 adults you listed, one is deceased, one is in college & one is listed as inactive. One is now living in California but isn't listed as such. Also, the three new Scouts you refer to are still active!

 

Where in any post (other than yours) was it stated:

"2 left for sports because sports offered more reward, adventure, activity, and fellowsip than the troop did. 9 to 12 new scouts left because they were not getting the promise of scouting fullfilled at the meetings or activities."

 

You once again made these assumptions and construed them as reality! And once again you are wrong!

 

Ed Mori

A blessed Christmas to all!

1 Peter 4:10

(This message has been edited by evmori)

[Bob White 20]

Ed, if you really owe me one then make the needed changes to save that troop, and give those scouts a scouting program. Then we can call it even.

 

My point has been Ed that every time I support the First Class Emphasis and New Scout Patrol you shoot it down. You have claimed it ineffective and you do a better job.

 

Based on what evidence Ed? Your troop is about to die and you are still too stubborn and hung up on your own ideas to see it.

 

Your unit isn't recruiting well

Your program doesn't retain scouts

Your program doesn't encourage even the most basic advancement in scouting skills

Your merit badges are nearly identical for every scout

You are bloated with adult support yet there is no sign of a scouting program other than campouts.

 

Stilll you refuse to embrace the scouting program structure even though you have been a scouting trainer.

 

It makes no sense other than to serve as a warniing to others.

 

Scout units that follow the program succeed, units that DO NOT follow the program FAIL.

 

It is unfortunate that you have lead this group of scouts to a cliff and seem perfectly willing to lead them over the edge.

 

I am always sorry to see any boy leave scouting , but I am saddened more by the number of boys who join and are refused a scouting program by the adult leaders.

 

I hope you will change your ways if for no other reason than to try and prove me wrong.

 

Good Luck,

Bob White

 

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"9 to 12 new scouts left because they were not getting the promise of scouting fullfilled at the meetings or activities."

 

Ed, don't you know that anytime a new Scout leaves, it shows that your program is a failure, most likely because you haven't rushed him to 1st Class. It doesn't matter if he prefers sports, hates trees, or has a deep rooted fear of tents. If he leaves, it is the fault of your program because, not only is Scouting for every boy, every boy belongs in Scouting.

[evmori 11]

Bob,

I never claimed FCFY (using this to save time) was ineffective. I never claimed I did a better job. You assumed this AGAIN! I feel FCFY is redundant. If a unit offers each Scout the ability to advance at their own rate then the unit is doing their job. My unit does this. Not all units fit into your mold.

 

You make broad assumptions. Unless you see what is going on 1st hand your assumptions have no basis. I do know my unit needs work. I am well aware of that. I have been in contact with my UC. But you wouldn't know that because you assume I have no clue what I am doing. Again, you assume wrong. You assume I don't use the Scouting program because I don't embrace FCFY or the NSP. Well, you need Scout to use the program. And since we only have three newer Scouts, the NSP doesn't fit. And like I stated before, my unit offers each Scout the ability to advance at their own rate.

 

I have no desire to prove you wrong since you need to be correct to be proven wrong. And you aren't correct in your assumptions.

 

Ed Mori

A blessed Christmas to all!

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White 20]

I am sorry you have chosen that attitude. What evidence is there that what you are doing is working? I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens.

 

Bob White

[Mike F 10]

Dave J 775 - If you're still around after this, I have sent you a private note. Feel free to discuss the ideas with me via email.

 

Bob White - I was learning some new stuff in this discussion, but now feel like I've been an unwitting party to an elaborate ambush. Lots of earlier discussion about the unknown (and some thought possibly hypothetical) Troop A gets a bunch of innocent folks to say Troop A is in the Danger Zone. (Even if it was a pseudo troop, we all know troops with some of these problems, so we could relate and it gets us to think.) Then 80 posts later the coup-de-tat is delivered with a zing. I try to keep an open mind, but I don't see how this method of communicating ideas could possibly have a positive outcome.

 

Im outta this one. Good day, gentlemen.

 

-mike f

 

[Davej775 10]

Here's some answers for FOG....

My son was invited to join by a local tradesperson who happened to meet us and he was the SM of that troop. I was invited along to help out that first meeting, with knot tying, as being a sailor on the week-ends, I was told I would be an asset. Next thing I'm wearing a uniform, managing Scouts in the wild, and learning, learning, learning! Thats how I got involved I'm was not of their particular faith or a member of the church. No one has a problem with that. As far as policy goes, its written in stone the youth programs incorporate BSA as their program and the BSA programming gives way to church policy.

I did offer my son a change to a closer troop, which is run very well, however, my son was against it havong to start all over. He has Asberger's Syndrome; and change for him is a very real ordeal. Look up Asberger's on the 'Net for further understand. Dave J!

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Wait a minute... maybe I am being a little slow here, but:

 

"Troop A" in Bob's original post is Ed Mori's specific troop?

 

I'll wait for confirmation of that before giving my opinion of that method of discussion in this forum. (If you can't already guess.)

[NJCubScouter 1389]

And this just dawned on me... and maybe I missed it... but Bob,

 

Is Troop B your troop?

[evmori 11]

NJ,

Correct. Troop A is mine. He did the same thing in another thread. However, Bob's description is based on nothing more than visiting my Troop's web site.

 

Mike F,

Sort of like the old bait & switch, huh?

 

Ed Mori

A blessed Christmas to all!

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White 20]

Let's get a few details straight.

 

Whenever I post a recommendation for the use of the BSA recommended and proven program of First Class emphasis or for the New Scout Patrol, Ed has discouraged it's use. His claim in the past was that he doesn't like it and doesn't use it and doesn't recommend it. His standard bearer for that claim was "his" troop.

 

Ed's version of scouting is no more the BSA program than Sturgen's. I have no intention of keeping them from posting, but if they have a right to denounce the BSA program, then I have the right to support the BSA and denounce what they have done and are doing to the youth they should be serving.

 

 

18-months ago in a discussion over this he said, look at my troop, we have 18 scouts and we don't use these methods. So following a link he gave I looked at "his" troop. I published the statistics of "his" troop and I asked for objective opinions of some very experienced scouters on their opinion on the health of this troop.

 

We had a professional, scoutmasters, asst. scoutmasters, committee members, all identify this as a unit in bad shape.

 

No one made Ed hold "his" unit up to be the evidence of a good program. Ed did that of his own accord. Ed's post were aimed at negating the positive attributes of a recommended scouting program. Ed said he knew a better way.

 

All I did was go to his troop's site and quantify what was said. Everyone made their own decision as to it's health.

 

I was in no hurry to say that Troop A was Ed's troop. He knew it was him and he pressed the issue. I NEVER said that it was a hypothetical troop, nor do I think it is unique. What is unique is that the leader of such a troop would publicly brag about the condition of the unit and it's lack of use of basic scouting methods.

 

Search Ed's posts. You will find where he says that the troop only elects the SPL and Ed assigns the rest. That's not using the scouting program. Ed, posts of routinely losing 50% of New Scouts (we now know it is more like 66% to 75%)that is not using the scouting program, Ed has told of not allowing Patrol activities, and that is not the scouting program. Ed has told how he directs scouts to specifc merit badges (look at the scout profiles their MB are nearly identical) that is not the scouting program.

 

Yet, Ed wants units to do as he does, and the fact is that Troop 1 is dying and nearly dead.

 

I am not responsible for the condition of Ed's troop. I did not manufacture the information shared about his troop. His troop has posted every fact on their website for anyone to see.

 

If you thought troop A was in trouble, it was an objective decision that each person made based on facts offered by Ed when he invited us to visit his site. I simply asked everyone what they thought those facts represented.

 

The message here is that the methods of scouting work if you use them and if you do not use them the unit will suffer.

 

If you don't like the message do not slay the messenger.

 

Bob White