Accept Partial from Camp I know was not complete ?

[Khaliela]

Why are you punishing the boys because of an issue with your council???

 

If the council does not train it's MB Counselors properly and ensure that the requirements are fulfilled at camp the backlash should be directed at the Council and the Camp Director, not the boy. By holding the boy accountable and doing nothing about the poor quality of MB Counselors at Camp you are only perpetuating they system.

 

I spent many hours with a lad working on the Forestry MB at camp this summer because the camp staff in charge of nature couldn't identify 5 trees, let alone 15 & know their uses! And the kid couldn't identify a tree based off just a wood sample either. That MB is complete only because I spent 6 hours working with the boy. Every kid in the class got a complete even though some of them had field notebooks that contained 5 samples of the SAME Tree. The issue is not the boys slacking off; the issue is that council doesn't hire people with knowledge in the area they are expected to work in.

[King Ding Dong]

Why are you punishing the boys because of an issue with your council???

 

If the council does not train it's MB Counselors properly and ensure that the requirements are fulfilled at camp the backlash should be directed at the Council and the Camp Director, not the boy. By holding the boy accountable and doing nothing about the poor quality of MB Counselors at Camp you are only perpetuating they system.

 

I spent many hours with a lad working on the Forestry MB at camp this summer because the camp staff in charge of nature couldn't identify 5 trees, let alone 15 & know their uses! And the kid couldn't identify a tree based off just a wood sample either. That MB is complete only because I spent 6 hours working with the boy. Every kid in the class got a complete even though some of them had field notebooks that contained 5 samples of the SAME Tree. The issue is not the boys slacking off; the issue is that council doesn't hire people with knowledge in the area they are expected to work in.

It is not clear who you are responding to.

[qwazse]

Why are you punishing the boys because of an issue with your council???

 

If the council does not train it's MB Counselors properly and ensure that the requirements are fulfilled at camp the backlash should be directed at the Council and the Camp Director, not the boy. By holding the boy accountable and doing nothing about the poor quality of MB Counselors at Camp you are only perpetuating they system.

 

I spent many hours with a lad working on the Forestry MB at camp this summer because the camp staff in charge of nature couldn't identify 5 trees, let alone 15 & know their uses! And the kid couldn't identify a tree based off just a wood sample either. That MB is complete only because I spent 6 hours working with the boy. Every kid in the class got a complete even though some of them had field notebooks that contained 5 samples of the SAME Tree. The issue is not the boys slacking off; the issue is that council doesn't hire people with knowledge in the area they are expected to work in.

K. It's not a matter of slacking. It's a matter of the boy actually learning something. It sounds like you helped one boy learn. Now if I were the SM of the other boys in that class and knew what happened, I would not honor the blue cards because doing so is hurting the boys. I would probably have them go over to your campsite with a fresh pot of coffee or flowers or whatever and ask if you'd help them complete the requirements as written!

 

Then I would have a sit-down with the camp director and tell him to not offer the course any more this summer until the MBC knows his material and promises not to cut corners.

 

So yes, it's a two-pronged approach. But most of us know how to complain to adults and maybe over time force a change. But we need our boys to learn how to handle these situations. Encouraging them to rise up against "grade inflation" is very likely one of those things that they will thank us for later in life. That includes helping them understand what they did wrong. It is wrong to go into class without knowing the requirements. It is wrong to do less than your level best just because someone *explained* his/her off-the-cuff rules instead of *referenced* the book. [insert my standard rant against EDGE here.] It is right to ask for a partial blue card when that more accurately reflects your accomplishments. It is right to let us know when an MBC is not being effective.

 

Skills like these will help a youth navigate through college or trade school.

[Scouter99]

Why are you punishing the boys because of an issue with your council???

 

If the council does not train it's MB Counselors properly and ensure that the requirements are fulfilled at camp the backlash should be directed at the Council and the Camp Director, not the boy. By holding the boy accountable and doing nothing about the poor quality of MB Counselors at Camp you are only perpetuating they system.

 

I spent many hours with a lad working on the Forestry MB at camp this summer because the camp staff in charge of nature couldn't identify 5 trees, let alone 15 & know their uses! And the kid couldn't identify a tree based off just a wood sample either. That MB is complete only because I spent 6 hours working with the boy. Every kid in the class got a complete even though some of them had field notebooks that contained 5 samples of the SAME Tree. The issue is not the boys slacking off; the issue is that council doesn't hire people with knowledge in the area they are expected to work in.

Boys who filled notebooks with 5 samples of the same tree are not victims, they are complicit liars; keeping the badge from them is not misdirected punishment that belonged to adults, it's justice. That is precisely why the new Guide to Advancement procedure prescribes a conference with the boy to help him see where the problem lies when he accepts credit for work he knows he didn't do.

[Khaliela]

Why are you punishing the boys because of an issue with your council???

 

If the council does not train it's MB Counselors properly and ensure that the requirements are fulfilled at camp the backlash should be directed at the Council and the Camp Director, not the boy. By holding the boy accountable and doing nothing about the poor quality of MB Counselors at Camp you are only perpetuating they system.

 

I spent many hours with a lad working on the Forestry MB at camp this summer because the camp staff in charge of nature couldn't identify 5 trees, let alone 15 & know their uses! And the kid couldn't identify a tree based off just a wood sample either. That MB is complete only because I spent 6 hours working with the boy. Every kid in the class got a complete even though some of them had field notebooks that contained 5 samples of the SAME Tree. The issue is not the boys slacking off; the issue is that council doesn't hire people with knowledge in the area they are expected to work in.

KDD--It was just a random thought about Blue Cards and partials, not directed at anyone.

 

QWAZSE--While I agree that it is important for the boys to actually learn the skills required; I think denying the blue card w/o going after the inept counselor is unreasonable. If you are going to deny the blue card, then you must also go after the person who signed it complete. I was just trying to point out that the lack of learning is not always the boys fault; sometimes you just get a poor teacher.

 

SCOUTER99--The boys who filled the book with 5 samples of the same tree didn't know any better. They got the samples from 5 different trees; it was just the same species and because the instruction was so poor they didn't know any better. They had a White Fir labeled as a white fir, and also labeled as a Grand Fir (both correct names for the same tree); they also had a dead white fir labeled as a Tamarack (Western Larch) because it was orange and all they knew of Tamarack was that it is the only conifer in the area to turn orange and loose it's needles in the fall; they also had it labeled as a Douglas fir because they found one whose needles didn't lay completely flat; then they had the cone labeled as coming from a Spruce, no idea how they came up with that. The boys had NO IDEA that they were all the same species and neither did the MBC! You can't fault a boy for not knowing what he wasn't taught.

[Scouter99]

Why are you punishing the boys because of an issue with your council???

 

If the council does not train it's MB Counselors properly and ensure that the requirements are fulfilled at camp the backlash should be directed at the Council and the Camp Director, not the boy. By holding the boy accountable and doing nothing about the poor quality of MB Counselors at Camp you are only perpetuating they system.

 

I spent many hours with a lad working on the Forestry MB at camp this summer because the camp staff in charge of nature couldn't identify 5 trees, let alone 15 & know their uses! And the kid couldn't identify a tree based off just a wood sample either. That MB is complete only because I spent 6 hours working with the boy. Every kid in the class got a complete even though some of them had field notebooks that contained 5 samples of the SAME Tree. The issue is not the boys slacking off; the issue is that council doesn't hire people with knowledge in the area they are expected to work in.

Help me with your wording: Did their notebook contain 15 entries but 5 duplicates, or just 5 duplicates? In the case of the former, of course simple ignorance would not be grounds for denying the MB in the first place (though I could very easily see some powerhungry weirdo claiming that).

[Khaliela]

Why are you punishing the boys because of an issue with your council???

 

If the council does not train it's MB Counselors properly and ensure that the requirements are fulfilled at camp the backlash should be directed at the Council and the Camp Director, not the boy. By holding the boy accountable and doing nothing about the poor quality of MB Counselors at Camp you are only perpetuating they system.

 

I spent many hours with a lad working on the Forestry MB at camp this summer because the camp staff in charge of nature couldn't identify 5 trees, let alone 15 & know their uses! And the kid couldn't identify a tree based off just a wood sample either. That MB is complete only because I spent 6 hours working with the boy. Every kid in the class got a complete even though some of them had field notebooks that contained 5 samples of the SAME Tree. The issue is not the boys slacking off; the issue is that council doesn't hire people with knowledge in the area they are expected to work in.

SCOUTER99: 15 entries, but 5 of them were the same species. (White Fir) So in actuality they only had 10 species ad didn't meet the requirement.