BSA Bylaws, Rules and Regulations

[packsaddle 753]

boleta, this comes from my colleague who is also the district commissioner or committee chair (I'm not sure about his position right now). He has been completely frustrated that his predecessors and their assistants have been interested only in the title, not the service, a tradition that he has been unable to break. And that this status seems to have been cultivated by the pros (his conclusion, not mine). My friend is now looking forward to devoting his time to his unit and his son, repeating the road I took.

My response: who cares? The unit is strong and we'll continue to do fine. I tried to volunteer to help those guys and all I got was a view of their backs. Not a problem at all. I'll take the boys any day.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Eamonn 61]

When selecting people to sit on the district committee. The nominating committee goes out of their way not to select active unit people.

Not because we don't like them, but because we work for them.

Sure we need people who know the program to do some of the stuff that needs to be done.But the best units have leaders that deliver the program, show up at Roundtable and don't need our help.

The paths that people take to end up on a district or council committee are varied. Many of the people who are active in units see the non-Scouting people as the "Suits."There seems to be some sort of discrimination against these people.Sure they may not have the outdoor skills and have worked with youth in the program. I don't need people with them sort of skills on the district committee. I need them skills in the unit. Some of these non Scout types are brought on to the committee not so much for what they know, but for who they know. The Bank President who serves on the Finance Committee may not be able to tie a square knot. He does know enough people in the community and what people in the community to ask to help with the FOS Campaign. Our Membership Committee Chair. Has never been a Scout or Scouting volunteer before but as a school superintendent, he does wonders working with the schools. When he phones the school he rarely gets put on hold.

I have been active at both the district and council level for a number of years. Still there is some stuff that may be going on in different areas that I don't know about and have never asked. Our council endowment fund has a lot of money in it. It is invested in various stocks and bonds. Sure I get the report of how it is performing and what the return was. I have no idea where the money is invested. It might be in Coors Beer!! I don't know and for the most part don't care. I trust those that are managing it. Strange as it may seem the guy in charge is a Holder of the Distinguished Eagle, yet by many he is seen as one of the "Suits."

There is a lot of things happening in a council and a district. There are no secrets if someone wants to know all they have to do is ask the right person in the right way. Some decisions are easy. Some that may have far reaching effects are hard. Very few of these are made by someone shooting from the hip. They are discussed and debated within committee and then taken to the Executive Board where they are discussed and debated again. It would be a lie to say that some things which seemed like a good thing or The Answer at the time, don't at a later date turn around and bite us in the tail. There is a term for that which I'm not going to use in these forums.

Packsaddle, in my book if the pack in which you serve is delivering the program. That is all that I want you to do. Keep on keeping on, it helps both the council and the District if you would support them by selling popcorn and allowing the FOS presenter to do his thing.

Eamonn.

[boleta 10]

I have found that it is very difficult not to alienate new people who come up to District and Council level. The older scouters may not be sensitive to the fact that we need new blood to make the program work. It requires us to be sensitive that the volunteers don't know everything and a lot of assistance may be required.

[Eamonn 61]

You must be a lot nicer then I am.

Sure we need to train the new people. But as to being sensitive to the old Scouters. That isn't in my job description. I have a job to do and goals to meet, I am going to surround myself with the best possible people available and get the job done and meet the goals. I don't work alone, I have the nominating committee and other members of the key3. The older Scouters work for their Chartering Organizations, I work for the Council and the district. Sure we are there to support the units. But I don't have time to pander to what older Scouters think. In fact I couldn't care less.

Eamonn.

[Bob White 20]

Group dynamics are a funny thing and never cease to amaze me. If you are aware of the 4 stages of team development you see that we go through them all the time on this board. it becomes especially noticeable when new names join the board. it also happens in scouting when new boys join, when new adults join, when different program levels meet, etc.

 

A group of unit leaders usually reach the stage of "performing", where everyone knows their job and what each others skills and abilities are. More importantly they see a specific shared goal within their group. District and council committees reach that same point.

 

But a problem often arises when Unit and District meet. The biggest problem I see, and this was evident before I volunteered for District service, is that while most District and Council volunteers have unit experience and understand the goals of unit scouting, very few unit scouters know or understand the goals of district and council support services.

 

Because of that District/Council service becomes a damned if you do, damned if you don't existence. The District is responsible for membership growth, but if the District helps bring more charter organizations and more boys into scouting then many unit volunteers complain. Most common among the complaints is that "we" the district, are hurting "their" units. What is not being realized is that the district is responsible for bring in more organizations and people to Scouting.

 

The District and Council are responsible for raising money and operating camps and other activities. The have to deal with units and leaders who refuse to host an FOS presentation or sell popcorn or attend the council camp. Then those same leaders will complain when camp budgets are cut or old camp equipment isn't replaced. So when we do our jobs we are told we are to focused on money. When the income can't cover the costs of operation then we accused of "an accounting scandal.

 

So how do we get Unit leaders to understand the purpose of the District and Council.

 

At Roundtables? The units we have problems with don't come to Roundtable. At training? the units we have the most problems with aren't trained, and in some cases brag about being untrainable.

 

When they ask for information? That seems to be the best time unfortunately few ask.

 

So what normally happens is what has happened ion the thread. When circumstance go beyond the group or individuals knowledge base they let emotions take over. The most damaging is mistrust. One that sets in the group or individual no longer seeks facts, what they want and are drawn to are people who will support their feelings, rather than solve their problems. They want to "feel" justified in their opinions and decisions.

 

I am far understanding of the people who don't know then I am of the people who don't want to know but are satisfied with just complaining. But the ones who really turn me off are the enablers. the ones who do not bring any facts or knowledge to the problem but just support the the person who is upset to fell better about being angry.

 

We have some really experienced enablers in this thread.

 

For scouting to work we have to work together at all levels. For District/Council to support units, units have to support the District/council. There is no other way to succeed.

 

 

 

[boleta 10]

Interesting observations Bob. Dead on for our District for the most part. But, our District Committee is supposed to be made up of the COR's of the District. After calls, e-mails and pleas to CORs and unit leaders, we can expect 4 or 5 out of 20 CORs at each meeting. The heavy lifters in the District- Training Chair, Membership Chair, etc. have committees of 1 or 2 at most.

It seems that the problems expressed in this thread are the symptoms of the disease of lack of interest on the part of parents and scouters who are necessary to make the program better. The last thing we need is to have a new adult come up to District and then get criticised for not being perfect. He then says- "I don't need this, I was perfectly happy in my Troop which works fine". Many hands make the work light.

[Eamonn 61]

Can't help thinking that I'm missing something.

I understand Team Development. So I have that part.

I understand that we are all doing what we can to support the units and the youth in the units.I like to think that I have a fair idea of what we all are doing as part of the Big Picture.(The Big Picture as laid out in the vision and mission statements of the BSA.)

My point is that we have different teams that while working toward the same vision and the same mission have different goals.

Sure I can bring in the Tiger Den Leader to be part of the Troop leadership team. But by doing so I am not really helping the troop and I sure as heck am putting a hurting on the Tiger Cub Den.

Just as it is wrong for a unit leader to be a Commissioner. In the book of Eamonn how can a District Committee serve the units if the District Committee is taking the leaders away from the units? Keeping on that track: Does the Adult Leadership in a Crew need to know who the Tiger Den Leader is? Sure there may be times when something is going on that might involve the Tiger Den Leader and the Crew Adviser,but that would be out of the ordinary.

Just as a Chartering Organization should select the best people to serve as leaders in their Scouting programs. The District and Council working with the nominating committees should select the best people to serve them.

I am guilty of being very flippant when I said that I didn't care less about older Scouters. If someone takes the time to ask me a question I will do my best to answer it. At times I have been known to defend the answer. There have been times when someone has brought something to me and I have presented it at the next level where it may have been voted on and I, maybe because I didn't put the point across well enough or maybe others thought that whatever it was, wouldn't work or was wrong. Sure I hate to lose, but we move on. There have been times when I have argued in committee with some of my closest friends. At the end they might win or I might win and yes sure enough we have been known to re-argue it all over again in the parking lot or at the club. Still we are gracious losers, we move on and make whatever it was work. We do this in part because we are nice people and mostly because we love this organization and always come back to serving the end user - The Kids.

Eamonn

 

 

[boleta 10]

I don't want to "steal" the unit leaders from their units. I want them to attend if they want to give us ideas of what they want the District to do. But I do need the CORs to attend. I would like unit Committee members who are interested, to move up to District- come and see what is happening on the District level so they can help out as well.

[Bob White 20]

I agree with everything you said Eamon. The goals of District/ council and the unit differ greatly in some respects, but neither can succeed without the other.

 

I also agree that tenure doesn't mean knowledge or ability. The capacity some people have to do a job badly for a prolonged period of time is amazing to me.

 

As a district or council leader you have a responsibility to thousands of people to get these kind of volunteers productive or out of the way of those who are productive.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Eamonn 61]

I know that I ought to spin off now, we are a long way from jkny's question.

In fact that's what I'll do.

Eamonn.