Big_Dog 10 Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Just a question, In this article, http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=39675&newsid=10&rubrik1=Regional&rubrik2=All&rubrik3=All&sort=1&start=1&sparte=4 some ex-scouters are trying to advance the usage of a 'homosexual friendly scouter' knot. (I shortened it to ho-knot). Do you really think this would help, or would it be like wearing a scarlet letter? FOG - should I order you one??????? just kidding, FOG bd Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 I read about this a couple years ago and actually saw one at the University of Scouting (by a strange coincidence, the Scouter wearing it fell down an elevator shaft . . . just kidding . . . maybe) Link to post Share on other sites
buffalo2 14 Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 I just can't see it... Link to post Share on other sites
John-in-KC 311 Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 We discussed this at PTC last summer, in the conference I attended. Granted, my conference was during Relationships Week, but... As I recall, we pretty well agreed: Anyone wearing this knot deserves to get his dues remitted by Council, and invited never to return to Scouting. As a parent, ensuring my child understands the facts of life fall solely in my lane. WITHOUT MY EXPLICIT PERMISSION, it's not for my childs' Pastor, Scoutmaster, coaches, or schoolteachers. Does that mean I go it alone? No. I evaluate what his Church, Scouting, athletic organizations, and his schools are going to teach. Then, I give permission. That's a line in the sand. Anyone who crosses that line (and wearing the "rainbow knot" crosses that line) will be the subject of a call from me to my local Child Protective Services; in the case of Scouting, to my nearest professional. John Link to post Share on other sites
Big_Dog 10 Posted May 24, 2004 Author Share Posted May 24, 2004 John, COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT BETTER, MYSELF!!! You da man, bd Link to post Share on other sites
Eamonn 61 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 I think myself lucky that I don't have to make the decision what is and what isn't "Avowed". I would however think that anyone wearing this patch with full knowledge of what it stands for would make my deciding real easy. Eamonn Link to post Share on other sites
John-in-KC 311 Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 post deleted, it cut off 90% of my writing again(This message has been edited by John-in-KC) Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 "I think myself lucky that I don't have to make the decision what is and what isn't "Avowed". I would however think that anyone wearing this patch with full knowledge of what it stands for would make my deciding real easy." Howszat? Unless I missed something, wearing the patch doesn't mean that you are light in your loafers, you're just showing that you support those that are. Link to post Share on other sites
fgoodwin 23 Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 [John-in-KC] We discussed this at PTC last summer, in the conference I attended. Granted, my conference was during Relationships Week, but... [/John-in-KC] John, I was at PTC last summer for "Scouting in the Church's Ministry". Which conference were you in? Fred Goodwin, Episcopal Scouter Alamo Area Council, BSA Diocese of West Texas, ECUSA Link to post Share on other sites
Big_Dog 10 Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 Hello, Fred. Greetings and salutations from just up hwy 281. I'm in the Wolf Mountain district of the Capital Area Council. BD Link to post Share on other sites
John-in-KC 311 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 This thing cut off my message again (This message has been edited by John-in-KC) Link to post Share on other sites
acco40 95 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 I too, don't like the bumper sticker mentality of those who sport rainbows, NRA stickers, party affiliations, pro-choice, pro-life, religious affiliations, etc. To me it displays an in-your-face attitude that I don't like. Now, if a Scout in our troop asked my my beliefs, I'd tell him the honest truth. What I have witnessed in our troop, on a very limited basis, is boys using the term "fag", "faggot", "homo", etc. in a pejorative sense. I don't condone that behavior and let them know it ASAP. It is educational, to say the least, to witness the boys (usually in the 13 - 15 yr. old age group) talk about the opposite sex, and sexuality in general. With their false bravado and attempt at "coolness" many of the words they use are not inline with the Scout Oath and Law, at least in my interpretation. Similarly, I don't think a reference to a "ho-knot" is humorous. I'm sure many would find issue with references to the God knot or Bible thumper knot. By the way, KC, if a Scout asked me a question about sex I would not automatically clam up and I would also not come running to you for permission to speak to your son. I'd follow the guidelines stated in the SM Handbook. Are you so worried about others influence on your son and have so little confidence in your influence on him that you would ban others from speaking to him? Get real.(This message has been edited by acco40) Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster7 11 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Acco40, To some degree, I agree with your assertion. Some bumper stickers and bumper sticker like symbols are very much in your face. For example, I take exception to the Christian fish portrayed with legs. A Christian symbol is being distorted, not just to show a personal belief (i.e., I believe in evolution), but to insult and annoy those who claim the Christian faith. If any other religious symbol (non-Christian) were denigrated in this way, the media would be all over it. No doubt, Mike Wallace would be standing on the doorstep of the manufacturer, if not querying the guy on street, Why do you embrace such a hateful symbol? However, for some reason, perhaps because Christians are supposed to be in the majority (at least as self-proclaimed), the media ignores these kinds of bigoted offenses. SorryI digress. In regard to your example: I'm sure many would find issue with references to the God knot or Bible thumper knot. In the context of the BSA, this assertion falls short of being convincing. You are failing to make a major distinction. Those who would embrace such a symbol belong to the same organization (the BSA); an organization, which not only collectively recognizes God, but one that encourages all of its members to take an oath to God and to embrace their religious faith individually. It seems to me, all that claim an affiliation with the BSA, should welcome the idea of a God knot, for it merely re-enforces a value that they already claim to appreciate. However, contrary to a God knot, the proposed Ho-knot stakes claim to a value that contradicts those embraced and backed by BSA policy. In other words, it would seek to cause disharmony within the organization, as opposed the unity that a God knot might display. Link to post Share on other sites
Big_Dog 10 Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 I believe if a scouter earned the religious emblem as a scout, there is a knot he can wear as an adult. So, in that line of thought, I guess you could call it a "God knot". Don't want to get too much on the "God knot" issue or we'll draw Merlyn in here. I just believe that wearing a knot to let a scout know that you are "gay-friendly" (from the original article) is just trying an end-run around the stance BSA has taken. bd Link to post Share on other sites
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