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Beavah

COMPLAINTS: Vanishing and Moving Messages

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Guest OldGreyEagle

Look two asterisks in a row

 

(heads up to those who are new, the asterisk by the name identifies a moderator)

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Ok, I may be showing my age but there isa word acco40 used in his post above that I find offensive. What is worse is it came from a moderator and was left up by another. You may think that this is a 'boys' club' and not watch your language but there are ladies here too!

edited for a typo(This message has been edited by firekat)

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FireKat, Acco's post was not meant to be offensive. He's written an old line from the original Saturday Night Live TV show used in the point/counterpoint debates of Dan Aykroyd and Jane Curtin. Well, at least as a lady myself, I didn't take offense.

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The offence that occures is that kids think it is OK to use such language on popular show like the original Saturday Night Live TV show. Next they are using it talking to others and you end up wondering what happened to the kids. I stopped watching it early because of this behavior. We want our kids to be respectful so modeling and immitaing rude behavior says to the kids it is OK. I feel, as scouters we need to be much more careful on our actions around the kids. (think like a kid: 'hey! the [insert any adult position] immitates SNL so it is Ok to call ___ a s*** because I am just joking and playing out SNL)

Opps, got on my soapbox again. I am not mad or anything like that. I just want people to see how the rude/crude behavior can start.

 One interesting observance is the old adult smoking ritual around scouting activites. They know they should quit but it is so hard and not all can so the ritual was born to keep it away from the kids. The same sould be said about offcolor jokes, adult beverages (love to join you, beaver :), and such.

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Firekat I must respetively disagree with you. The word Acco posted that you took offense at is not one many would consider offensive. Even if it were I think a reaction to it is over the top. Do you believe that by sheltering children against such things will keep them from using them? I do not. Often it is the reaction to these types of things that do more to cause children to pick up a habit than the habit itself. Take coffee as an example. Give a young child a drink and they will likely not want any more, same with liver and onions. Make a big deal and prevent them form it and they will want it more. Human nature is to want what we do not or can not have; goes back to Eve in the garden.

 

Same with tobacco. I know a fair number of Scouters that trace their scouting back to their youth when it was common place that adults smoked. Most all of these Scouters do not use tobacco. I happen to be the exception; I use smokeless tobacco. MY last Scoutmaster did not use tobacco, and yet I made an informed decision after my 18th birthday to use the product. Much to the irritation to the anti-tobacco NAZIS tobacco remains a legal substance. Is it harmful? Perhaps. Look at staples in the diet of youngsters these days. Salted foods, soft drinks, energy drinks, white bread, and the list could go on and on. Are any of these actually good for them? With the exception of possibly energy drinks in moderation in times of extreme heat or activity no, not a single one. Salt intake can have real problems. Soft drinks not only usually contian caffeene but also contain ingredients that when deliverd to the botteling plant come in a truck with HAZMAT placards, corrosive! Do they hydrate the body, well no they actally lead to dehydration and yet most Scout camps sell them in their trading post. Without even taking about the dangers of sugar and high fruitose corn syrup. White bread; most all of the fiber has been removed from the wheat in processing making it so digestable that our body converts it to sugar very quickly.

 

SO IMHO lets be honest and consistant when dealing with things we put into our bodies that might be harmful. If asked by a youth about tobacco I would honestly tell them to avoid the substance, as I do already with soft drinks, salt, energy drinks , and white bread. BTW my children have been eating crushed wheat bread their entire lives and like it.(This message has been edited by BrotherhoodWWW)

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FireKat,

From one smoke eater to another, I had a friend that I use to work with. She was of Lebanese descent. One day she heard her 4 year old sing a song in Lebanese about the ladies walking down the street with their backsides(word changed) cacheting back and forth. She calmly asked him where he learned the song. He replied "Auntie." Well Auntie had ran the largest brothel east of the Mississppi in Cleveland, with DC clientele. My friend decided to let it drop figuring that he would soon forget the song. She figured that if she had carried on about it that he would have put the song to memory forever, because mom didn't like it.

 

As for disappearing threads and posts. it should be a moderator group decision, not just one person making the decision, unless the post or thread was so blatantly over the line. This way one moderator doesn't go over the edge. This way being a group decision, there is teeth in the decision, and more credibility with the members. Like I said the other day, "Watch out for those MIB".(This message has been edited by ASM915)

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BrotherhoodWWW - tell me why it is OK to use derogatory word about females? Would you use that word in describing you mother? How would you feel if someone said that to your mother/daughter/sister? If that would not bother you, then use it. Before posting, think of your audence - all of it.

I am not a fan of this trend in using bad word as complements or say they are OK because some 'star' talks that way or tries to get laughs using them.  They are still hurtful to some.  Let's be kind and courteous as scouts should be.

If you wish to discuss to pros and cons of  chemicals and hazardous materials, then start a new thread. I do not wish to take this one off on a tangent.

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I cannot buy into the school of thought that "its okay to use foul language because they are going to hear it from others". Certainly as role models we should have a better personal code than that?

 

The lanuage used that offened FireKat would offend most people, and I know few adult Scout leaders who would use that language in such a public setting. I know it was used on TV but it was used precisely for its shock value in hopes of offending.

 

I commend FireKat for speaking up for her standards.

 

BW

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Gotta agree with Bob on this. We should be setting good examples. I am not offended by the post that offended FireKat (I remember that skit on SNL it was a hoot) but that doesn't make it right. Then again, the word I think that offended FireKat isn't vulgar or a curse word and therefore should not be censored. Remember Fahrenheit 451?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

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Scouter Firekat, on behalf of scouts and scouters who follow the Scout Oath and Law, I want to apologize for the poor judgment and un-scoutlike behavior that you recently experienced. As you have reminded us, hurtful language is not part of the scout program and I wish I could tell that the need for such apologies are rare or becoming more rare. They are not. Thank you for standing up and upholding the higher scout standard.

 

(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

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I, too, am quite disturbed by entire threads being deleted. Like what BrotherhoodWWW wrote, if I post to a thread, and the entire thread is deleted, what is the ultimate purpose of making a reply? The "Rogue Unit" thread was one that I responded to, and "self-moderated" my reply so as not to offend or give any "Top Secret" details away about myself or CO or anyone else. I think this thread had a good opportunity to get some feedback from more members, but it was cut off before that could happen. I didn't see what the offense was, because it was deleted about 2 posts after my response. I think a little more moderator self-moderation is due....(This message has been edited by SMEagle819)

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I'm late to the party here, but just to let you know, FireKat, as one XX chromosome carrier to another, I too cringed at the word. I guess I'm a little bit chagrined that folks actually thought it was OK:

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Yup I'm with Vicki and FireKat on the general meaning of the word in question although I too remember the skit. I'd be appalled to hear my son (or husband, or male friends) calling a woman that and they'd get an earful and then some from me for sure. If it were someone I was dating, well I probably wouldn't be any longer, as to me, casual application of that label denotes a lack of respect for women in general. If it were someone I was working with, I'd think a lot less of them and watch my back after that. That word carries with it a set of judgments about a person's worth, based on (generally incorrect) presumptions about their sexual behavior, and it is almost always meant to belittle.

 

But, the thing here is that it wasn't actually applied or directed to anyone. And maybe it comes across more harshly for being printed text as opposed to face to face communication where we can better judge intent. So while I hope this is a term that people here would not use much in general conversation, I'm not sure it's a hanging offense for acco in this context either. ;)

 

 

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I am not angry at acco for the way he used that word, knowing it was from a skit. How would you respond if your boys put on that skit at a scout functon? That is the point I am trying to make. We need to try not to do things that the boys might copy.

Ed: explain how that word is not thought of as a vulgar or a curse? I have neverseen or heard it used as anything but an insult. (See what I posted to WWW above.)

If you would not like that term applied to you or a family member it is a problem and should not be repeated or used by scout leaders. I also want leaders to watch the use of words like stupid, dummy, etc as directed at anyone but themselves. Lead by example as much as possible. When not possible, talk with the kids about it.

Kat

 

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Ed: explain how that word is not thought of as a vulgar or a curse? I have never seen or heard it used as anything but an insult.

 

When it is true. That doesn't make the use of the word correct, just not vulgar & it has never been a curse word.

 

Would I call my mother that? Nope. Why? Because it isn't true of her.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

 

(This message has been edited by evmori)

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