Troop members want to join crew

[Lexington76 10]

I am the advisor for a 4 year old and very active crew. I also serve as the Charter rep for our pack and troop & serve on the troop committee, helping with Courts of Honor.

 

My problem is that I have about 5-6 Boy Scouts (ages 13-14), some who have earned their Eagle who would like to join the crew as they feel that they have out grown the troop parents, some who are leaders, would like to move to the crew as well

 

This in itself is no problem (my own son completed his Eagle as a part of the crew) but I want to see the troop continue to have senior scout leadership - I also do not want to discourage membership in the crew. Being a part of one unit is better than not one at all! Venturing has served as a great way for many boys who left scouting to rejoin a unit - over half of my male members have been such...

 

Attending one meeting a week for these active boys is hard enough, much less asking them to attend two How do I continue to grow the crew but not hurt the troop by them losing older boys. We do not have a policy as our troop and crew are fairly new- how do you handle such a problem?

 

[Bob White 20]

Your problem is two fold.

 

One as the CR it was your role to find and advisor for the Crew not be the advisor for the crew. You have created a role conflict that is compounding the problem.

 

As the Crew Advisor it is the quality of the program offered by the Crew.

 

Second, as the CR your problem is that the Troop Scouting program you are the CEO of has a program weakness and is not holding the interest of their older scouts. Your goal as CR should be having three independent but strong programs. If the troop was offering a program that appealed to older scouts the the crew would be relying on bring more youth into the program from outside the troop and everyone would be better off.

 

The BSA registration rules allow the CR to duplicate as a unit committee chair but not as the unit leader. You could resolve you dilemna by choosing to be either the CR or the Crew advisor but not both.

 

Either choice you make will be in the best interest of the Scouting programs at your CO(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Lexington76 10]

Bob- Thanks for the response.

 

I am aware of the prefered leadership tree, but even with lots of effort, help from other leaders, lunch one-on-ones with parents, I am unable to get adult leadership commitment as you rightly suggest.

 

The reasons are classic-

 

" I'll help as long as my son is in the program..."

" Times are tough- I need to scale back on my time with Scouts..."

"Don't you think I'm more valuble as a den leader/ lower level leader than as a higher level leader?"

"I'm burned out and need a break.."

 

We have a bout 60 youth with about 20 leaders- our church greatly supports scouting, but older adults have not been interested in assisting even on committtee levels.

 

So many jobs are still covered by a few.... I would like to get rid of the COR designation if only someone would take it. My real joy is with the crew.

 

Thanks for letting me blabber on...

[Beavah 205]

Yah, Lex, BW's right, eh? You're caught in a dual-role time-space distortion field. (had a cub scout tell me that tonight...)

 

As COR, you're tryin' to figure out what makes sense for the combined programs of your church. As advisor, you're tryin' to figure out what's best for the crew. That's tough to balance right, eh?

 

I think yeh get with a few folks you trust and take a step back and talk about how you and the CO really envision the various programs working together for kids. Does the crew appeal to a different group of church and community members so they should really run in parallel without much crossover? Or do yeh see the program as being a progression from troop as a middle-school-focused program to the crew as an age-appropriate high school program? If da second one is the case, how do young ladies fit in? Does a GSUSA unit feed into the crew as well, or will your church support a girls program that matches the troop program for middle school girls?

 

Point is to get out of your current rut and think about mission and values and what a youth scoutin' program for your church should be, eh?

 

Off da cuff, I'd say if you've got a bunch of 13-14 year old Eagle Scouts, then the lads are right, eh? It sounds like the troop right now is running like a middle school program, with the boys reachin' our "capstone" award in 8th grade if not sooner. I'd trust what they're tellin' you. Given how your troop has structured its program, it's time for them to move on to the crew and an age-appropriate high school program. The crew members can still serve as part-time or on-call instructors for the troop, and yeh still might run a dual event once or twice a year. That can be a fine way to go, and a lot of da BSA materials and some of our bigger chartered partners promote such an approach.

 

If yeh decide that's not your church's vision for its boy scouting program, then I think yeh have to address how you're approachin' boy scouting in your troop, and make some changes that reflect a notion of retaining high-school-aged boy leaders. Add more venture-patrol style outings for the troop, slow the race to Eagle a bit so that Star-Life-Eagle leadership gets redefined as stuff worthy of a strong high schooler rather than an active middle schooler. Mix ages in patrols so older boys lead younger ones and young ones are proud to become and stay leaders of their gang. And perhaps break a cub-scout-like approach to advancement? (hard to "read into" your post).

 

As to meetings, are you imposing the once-a-week thing on your crew? Yeh might want to talk to them about that, eh? High schooler's schedules tend to run in streaks. Quite a few crews find that fewer but longer meetings/events seem a more natural fit, with periods of high-activity "push" for a big trip and periods of lower activity that allow 'em to study for finals or whatnot.

 

Beavah

 

 

 

[NeilLup 13]

Hello Lexington76,

 

There are a few assumptions that your units may be making that, while sounding nice, are probably incorrect:

 

1) If you deny the older boys the opportunity to join the Crew, they'll stay in the Troop and continue to be leaders

This may or may not be true. Troops often make the assumption that they "own" the older boys and that the Crew is "stealing" them. Not so. The boys are free agents and if the BSA isn't offering what they want, they'll go elsewhere.

2) Eagle Scouts have a "duty" or "obligation" to give back to the Troop.

Be really careful with this one. If someone is serving as a leader because of duty or obligation, you may get leaders acting out of grim sense of duty rather than a jolly game. I would agree that Eagle Scouts and indeed all Scouts if not all humans have an obligation of service. But that can be met many ways, not necessarily just by service to the Troop.

3) Older boys should want to be leaders for younger boys

Some do. But many, if not most, do not. They want to be with their peers and with (shudder, gasp) girls. That's why the BSA has Venturing, to meet the needs of many high school youth. Some Boy Scout Troops meet those needs but some do not.

 

What to do. Perhaps you can have the older boys join the Crew but continue to serve as Instructors and mentors for the Troop meeting with them not every week but frequently enough that it is meaningful. Perhaps some of the older boys in Venturing will want to continue to be more active with the Troop. I suggest that you talk with each older boy individually and don't necessarily take what the group leaders and loudest ones are saying.

 

But you risk that if you deny the older boys the chance to do Venturing, you'll lose them completely.

[emb021 16]

Neil's comments echo some of my own feelings on the matter.

 

units do not 'own' the youth. The units are there for the youth. If they aren't meeting thier needs, they'll go elsewhere. Its silly for troops to speak of 'crews stealing our boys', as the boys are not 'owned' by the troop, so there is no 'stealing' of what you do not own.

 

People also need to keep in mind certain things. the Boy Scout program was designed for the 11-13 year old boy. Venturing was designed for the high school/college age youth. The mistake that the BSA has made for decades is to extend the boy scout program pass the age of 14.

 

[Nike 94]

Is dual registration with the Crew or Troop being primary no longer an option?

[emb021 16]

"Is dual registration with the Crew or Troop being primary no longer an option?"

 

It's still an option.

 

 

Keep in mind that it should be a decision of the BOY where or not he will be registered in a troop AND a crew, or just a crew. No one should set policies that require boys to remain registered in a troop in addition to being in a crew. Its their decision on what they do.

 

[Stosh 3452]

What I am hearing with this discussion is an ego-centric response by the youth. I got what I wanted out of Cubs. I got what I wanted out of Scouts, now it's time to get what I need now out of Venturing. No where along the Scouting journey did the boy ever learn leadership of others, it's all about self. What I want/need to be entertained because otherwise I'm bored.

 

Obviously 13-14 year-old scouts in this scenerio haven't the maturity to really understand what Eagle is really all about.

 

I have just received word, two days ago, that one of my Crew members got his Eagle at age 16. He's active in his troop, OA and my crew. That makes 9 Eagles following that same pattern from a variety of different troops all over the council that have earned Eagle while a member of my Crew. When Eagle is just a recognition of accomplishment, it means just that. When Eagle is a recognition of leadership, it means something quite different. I push for leadership, it's more enduring than being able to tie and teach others the square knot.

 

Even as this last boy told me about his Eagle he never once gave any indication that he's done with Scouting and will now focus just on the Crew. None of my Eagles ever said that. Only one of the 9 "dropped" out of scouting before they turned 18, but they also dropped out of my Crew as well.

 

Stosh

[Bob White 20]

Jblake writes "When Eagle is just a recognition of accomplishment, it means just that. When Eagle is a recognition of leadership, it means something quite different."

 

So you don't see leadership as an accomplishment?

 

Or just that you only like Eagles who you feel earn the Rank for the thing YOU think they should earn it for?

 

And yet you are disappointed almost every time. hmm I am shocked.

[Beavah 205]

And yet you are disappointed almost every time.

 

What an odd reading. And an inappropriate jab, eh?

 

I heard jblake sayin' he was not disappointed every time. That the boys he's had contact with, when held to a high standard of leadership and service, rose to meet that challenge and were proud of it. In the course of meetin' that challenge, they developed and demonstrated personal character, rather than self-centered award seeking.

 

Seems like far from bein' a disappointment, they are examples of success in our scoutin' mission.

 

Beavah