sctmom 11 Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 I posted a thread under Cub Scouts and one under Advancement about the Webelos handbooks. The Arrow of Light requirements have been beefed some, requiring more outdoor activites, not necessarily camping but at least get them outside. No one has to use the books until August 2005 but our pack is going to start with our new Webelos this fall. What impact do you folks on the troop side think this will have? Link to post Share on other sites
Eamonn 61 Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 As I said in the other thread, I do think that the new requirements are good. At times we tend to forget the idea that Scouts and Scouting is really an outdoor activity for all our youth. These new requirements will help to prepare these little guys to enter the troop more prepared then in the past. On the down side, I do have some concerns that when the Leader who signed up as a Tiger Parent and has stuck it out as a Den Leader with their son sees this, they might think that they do not have the skills to carry on. I can't wait till Bob White, wins his bet with his Lady wife to get his take on this.(This message has been edited by Eamonn) Link to post Share on other sites
sctmom 11 Posted August 11, 2003 Author Share Posted August 11, 2003 Hopefully parents/leaders have camped before their sons get to be Webelos, at least one starting as Tiger this year. The Wolf and Bear books have been updated to include info about family camping and give the boys some credit for camping and taking part in outdoor activities like campfires. I think that the new requirements should help in the Webelos to Boy Scout transition. The boy can still get his AOL without camping but he can't get AOL without spending A LOT of time outdoors -- hikes, campfires, conservation projects, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
buffalo2 14 Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 And this can't help but improve the communications between Packs and Troops that is so important... Don't be shy about offering the services of your youthful experts! Link to post Share on other sites
Laurie 10 Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 I like the change posted. What I wonder is if we'll see Tenderfoot requirements change now. The Arrow of Light requirements relating to camping are the same as those for Tenderfoot. So, are there changes coming in the Boy Scout rank and then the Tenderfoot rank? As for improving the relationship between pack and troop, the thought that occured to me is that if the current Webelos leaders don't feel comfortable with the new requirements, they can ask for troop help. What a great opportunity! Link to post Share on other sites
sctmom 11 Posted August 11, 2003 Author Share Posted August 11, 2003 If you look closely you see the requirements are NOT the same as Tenderfoot. The Webelos will do all of this with AN ADULT. The Boy Scout does it with his patrol. A big difference. Also, there are ways to get around the camping. It says to present your self as if going on a campout. Doesn't mean you have to go on the campout. The handbook does make it clear that the camping and hiking done for the Outdoorsman badge do NOT count for the Arrow of Light requirements, you must do a DIFFERENT hike. Glad they made that clear, otherwise changing the Outdoorsman would be useless. Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 "On the down side, I do have some concerns that when the Leader who signed up as a Tiger Parent and has stuck it out as a Den Leader with their son sees this, they might think that they do not have the skills to carry on. " These are the same parents that say "I don't need any training." I'm not a camper. Before I got involved in Scouting the only thing close to camping that I'd ever done was a couple training exercises with some Marines where we slept rolled up in our ponchos and ate C-rations. (yum!). So, off to Boy Scout leader training I went. Now I can build a fire and start one with flint and steel. I can cook in a tin can, on a stick or in a Dutch Oven. I can pitch a tent at night and I can make an improvised shelter out of a trash bag (also usefull for making a solar still). Am I a great outdoorsman? No, I'd still rather be sitting on the veranda, watching the sun go down while sipping a mint julip but I can get by. The key is to get these people to training so they can learn what they don't know. Link to post Share on other sites
Twocubdad 665 Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 I think the impact on the Scout troops should be positive. It makes the Scouts just that much more prepared for and comfortable with Scout camping. I don't have the new book yet so I can't really compare the two, but what jumped out at me from the other post was the requirement to present yourself packed and ready to go camping. That's a big improvement. The current Webelos program shoves kids (and their parents) out into the woods with few prerequisite skills. Now, at least, they will have to have some preparation. The one thing I would have added (and funny, they didn't ask me before updating the books) would be some exposure to firebuilding. The current Webelos program only asks them to know fire safety. Maybe they could build a fire lay but not light it . But with that addition they would know what basic gear to bring, how to pitch a tent, build a fire and cook a simple meal (an earlier Wolf achievement, I believe). Not ready for two weeks at Philmont, but the basic skills they need to make it over a Saturday night. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2780 Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 "On the down side, I do have some concerns that when the Leader who signed up as a Tiger Parent and has stuck it out as a Den Leader with their son sees this, they might think that they do not have the skills to carry on. " Hi All Iv'e stated several times that this is a valid problem. I found in our district that burned out adults acccounted for at least 60 to 75 precent of the Webelos who don't cross over. I don't see the new Webelos requirements having much effect one way or another on this problem. I agree these are positive changes for the Webelos and I think will add some fun to their program. Barry Link to post Share on other sites
sctmom 11 Posted August 12, 2003 Author Share Posted August 12, 2003 Twocubdad, one of the options for Outdoorsman is: 7. Discuss with your Webelos den leader the rules of outdoor safety. Using these rules, show how to build a safe fire and put it out. Link to post Share on other sites
SMT376Richmond KY 10 Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 I'll somewhat repeat form my other post. I am wondering if they will change the Scout and Tenderfoot requirements too. I know this year my son who just transitioned this year keeps saying "gee I already did this is Webelos." some of the "New" scouts are gettin a little peeved that he is able to show them things and that he is so confident in his Scout skills. Not that he knows everything as a Tenderfoot but compared to the other 7 boys he is ahead in some skills. Now in my previous scouting life as Cubmaster of the pack the past 3 years. I couldn't get boys to campouts due to that little rule of camping with a parent or responsiable adult. Many in our Pack are single parent homes with multiple kids so they couldn't or wouldn't be able to participate. Even when he had day hikes it was usually the leaders boys that came thus why my sons Scout skills are what they are. I remember in WLOT we were instructed to teach fire building skills to the Webelos so we did. Guess what? They loved it. We had several boys go to different Troops duing my tenure as CM. At roundtables these Troops commented how well these boys did in the transition without any difficulties. Link to post Share on other sites
sctmom 11 Posted August 12, 2003 Author Share Posted August 12, 2003 SMT, Did you not allow siblings on Cub campouts? We not only allow but encourage siblings on Cub campouts. Our Webelos have never camped as a den, but even then I would allow siblings. I've seen siblings as young as toddlers and as old as late teens have a great time on campouts. Link to post Share on other sites
SMT376Richmond KY 10 Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 SCTmom Yes we did have siblings invited. This didn't help either. We generally had a good turn out at the district fall cub campout then nothing the other times we were outdoors. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle Foot 10 Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 What,What,What, Where did I miss these new requirements on the arrow of light. I must have been wraped up with the upcoming fall camporee, what has change in the requirements? Eagle Foot Link to post Share on other sites
sctmom 11 Posted August 13, 2003 Author Share Posted August 13, 2003 Eaglefoot, The new Cub books just came out in the last few weeks. Packs don't have to start using the new Webelos book until August 2005. I'm having my new 4th grade Webelos using the book this year. It may be a few years before the troops see much impact. The new Webelos Requirements aren't online yet, once they are, I will post them. The books are not available at our council store, but I found them at the National Scout Shop. Link to post Share on other sites
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