FOS

[DeanRx 69]

For what its worth, the ONLY time I have even heard from or interacted with our DE in the past 2 years is when he's asking us to pitch FOS. Oh, that and the one time he dropped off scout fair tickets for the unit to SELL. To me DE = raise more money. The times I've needed information or policy guidance, I've either been redirected or ignored to the point that I have personally called the SE' cell phone at council because I had sent 3 e-mails and left 4 voice mails over a 7 day period with no response.

 

As you can tell, I don't have the highest opinion of the effectiveness of our current DE. Eagle, sounds like you were alot more engaged with the local volunteers than our guy is.

 

I've talked at length with pros from other areas including my old cubmaster who just finished a turn as council commish. He has been a DE and SE as well as several other council positions in the same council since I was a kid in the program. He stated to me that he is surprised by the amount of open hostility from the vols towards the pros. I relayed my story of my interactions over the past two years with our DE and told him I'm not surprized given what I've encountered. He replied that he has seen a decrease in quality of service delivered over the decades from the pros towards the vols. He said its one of the main reasons he is no longer a SE and took off the pro uniform in favor of the board member exec function he now holds.

[Doc Meyer 10]

As a long time lurker here, I, too, am amazed at the hostility and misinformation.

 

I torture myself by reading how some of you "know" how much web hosting, or liability insurance, or employee compensation benefits (salary, benefits, payroll taxes) affect your council.

 

Unit contributions are not likely tax-deductable, but it depends on the chartered partnet since they "own" the unit. Consult your tax adviser, as they say. Despite theories, most professionals are not spending the bulk of their time raising money. Period. Doesn't happen.

 

Perhaps some councils are misleading their community, but FOS and camp or facility improvements are not directly related -- two separate funds. Operating surplus goes to the capital fund each year for improvements. If your United Way funding is dropped or the big company in town just laid off 1,000 workers, there goes your FOS goal. If you're not meeting your operating budget, you're not putting anything into the capital fund at the end of the year. No mowing and pools fall apart. A sad fact. If you think event fees sustain these properties, you are misguided.

 

Look around the non-profit world. No one is living high on the hog.

 

Finally, I have to wonder. Why would anyone return some of your phone calls? If you are so angry and bitter, find another organization to help. Question concerns when appropriate, but bellyaching about the size envelopes used for mailings is extreme.(This message has been edited by Doc Meyer)

[Eagle92 110]

Doc,

Welcome to the forums. Since I am the one who mentioned improvements to camps, let me clarify.

 

I do know that major improvements, i.e. new showerhouses, new buildings, etc to camp are part of capital expenses, not operating expenses that FOS covers. However operating expenses do cover general maintence, i.e. fixing roofs, painting buildings etc.

 

In my council we have had one particular camp that has been neglected for some time. Hearsay had it that some folks wanted to get rid of the camp, hence the neglect. New SE came in, said the camp needed some work, and general maintence at the camp has been done. The maintencne has been so thorough that it looks like a new camp: buildings calked and painted, trails worked on, areas cleared out, etc. For us vols in the field, it was a MAJOR improvement, although technically speaking it was general maintence. that work had such an impact that we used the camp for a council event a few months after the OA Ordeal. First time in a very long time.

 

 

[AvidSM 11]

I check this year's FOS brochure from my Council and they show 77% going to the program - much more honest than 86%.

 

The way my Council shows it's budget - an you can view it online via their web site - all the money they receive, no matter what it is for, is shown as income. All the money that comes in for district events, camporees, cubaramas, klondikes, leader training, is shown as income. All the expenses for these district events are shown as program expenses for the Council.

 

It is very hard to deconstruct Council's budget and find out exactly how much they spend on program, aside from the district's activities. You could argue that since none of these Council employees are direct contact leaders, that none of their salaries are spent on program.

 

Councils say they spend 77% or 86% on program because its good PR. The parents of scouts understand that number better and feel obligated to give to FOS. Parents who are not exposed to the administrative and business end of scouting do not understand what their money is really spent on.

 

Whether you think your Council deserves your FOS donation depends on your attitude. You can say that they do nothing for the scouts and give nothing. You can say the only reason they exist is to support the units and the scouts who belong to them and give what you can. To try to figure out the exact number or percentage of the budget that is spent on "program" is a an exercise in futility.

[John-in-KC 311]

In 1968, when I was a youth member, it was called Sustaining Membership. It's been around a while.

 

Let me make this real simple, Abel. If you're not a COR, you need to become one. CORs have a vote. CORs can attend the business meetings of the Council.

 

Or ... you can whimper, and nothing will change.

[Oak Tree 15]

Doc,

 

Ok, I'll take you at your word. The professionals aren't raising money for the bulk of the time. So what are they doing with the bulk of their time?

 

And why would you say that unit contributions are likely not tax deductible? The vast majority of units are owned by non-profits, and donations to them are normally deductible. I think I've only seen one unit in our district that was ever owned by a company. The large majority are owned by churches, and almost all the rest are owned by fraternal organizations.

[AlFansome 10]

Oak Tree-

Depends on the tax status of the fraternal organization. If 501©(3), then tax deductible as a charitable expense. If 501©(4), then no, not as charitable, but perhaps for a business deduction. My Kiwanis Club sponsors 5 units and we're 501©(4). The process to create a 501©(3) charitable foundation is in process, but until then, donations made by our parents or the community to our units aren't (technically) deductible as charitable expenses.

 

See http://www.lectlaw.com/files/tax13.htm for lots of details.

 

Also, I'm in no way a professional in this area, so feel free to ignore and discount everything I've just said! :-)

[Eagle92 110]

DEs are running around behind the scenes with their necks chopped Some of the things I did besides fundraising back in the day included the following:

 

Recruiting youth in the form of school visits and round ups. Early days and long nites. Also involved a lot of meeting with school board, superintendent, and individual school principles.

 

Starting new units by contacting potential COs, organizing luncheons to get COs, etc.

 

Work with district committee to assist in areas that need help. I helped with training, orgainzing district events, etc.

 

Served as staff adviser to Cub Scout Family campout.

 

served as COPE staff adviser (helped to be the only DE with a COPE cert.) that entailed training, promoting, and conducting courses.

 

Served on summer camp staff.

 

Staffed various district and council events.

 

on call 24/7 especially in relation to YP matters. Yep I received and made 2:30AM YP calls. Also as part of summer camp staff, I had to do deal with a lost camper in the middle of the nite in a thunder storm.

 

When I say I know former pros who make double or triple their DE salary, I am not joking. you do a lot of different things, and the experience is a resume builder. My current boss is sometimes surprised at some of the things I've done as a DE, especially since I did the job almost immediately after college. I have KSAs that some folks my age do not have, all b/c of working as a DE.

 

trust me being a DE is not a 9-5 job. Long hours, and lots of weekends. That does put stress on families.