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How much are SE's paid? What does Williams make?

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I can see why they may choose to disclose such information for public relations reasons, but why would a private organization, in every sense of the word - no stock, etc. be required to disclose the income of their highly compensated employees? Obviously, I have no real legal background but that puzzles me.


When I attended commissioners college a few years ago one of the sessions presented typical district executive salaries. I was surprised at how low they were given the college educated requirement and the time they put in. Can anyone direct me to a hierarchy (sans salaries) of district executive, district director, scout executive, etc.?

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Regarding my postings:


When a CEO runs a company for his benefit, relying on smoke and mirrors instead of real accomplishments to meet the "measurements" set for his success, when that same CEO controls the board that has oversight of his actions (most were "elected" on his recommendation, when that CEO is selling off capital assets to meet short term financial goals, when the "employees" of that company are regular in their complaints and warnings but ignored and when the customers are ignored - and business continues to drop off, there is a problem.


Our Council is like too many companies - with the same "values." My "complaints" are those of many here. If BSA ever took a confidential poll, I'm sure that my comments echo a majority of "involved" Scouters - those that know anything about SCouting locally beyond their own unit (though even plain old parents are fed up with the endless focus on fundraising). In how many Councils have volunteers tried to organize COR'S to oust a SE? (and how often has it succeeded?)


I have seen a program I benefitted from - which my family has been part of for generations locally, decimated by the actions of one paid professional who - quoting someone from his old Council "should be in a desk at Supply." Actually, he shouldn't even be in Scouting. He made a mess of one Council and has done it again - and National knows but could care less. They've heard complaints from District Chairmen - who were ousted from the Board for their efforts. A unit Scouter was thrown out of BSA for speaking up at a Fireside Chat against property sales and the wholesale replacement of District and COuncil officials with political no-shows. Free speech isn't a right in BSA it seems - the same has happened elsewhere.


I am being "brave" and doing what is right and trying to change things - for the better. I got back into SCouting for my kids and as a way to pay back those that did so much for me. Yet I am appalled at what I see beyond the local unit level (and a few other units are no credit to Scouting). This is not the SCouting of my youth. I hope that this is not the case everywhere but there are too many places where it is. BSA has lost the moral high ground it claims with "values" when it won't practice what it preaches. In how many Councils are enrollment "errors" common? Why do we not remove boys until charters are renewed - after December- but add new ones in September - and then ALWAYS quote the inflated "year-end" number. Our District dropped over 20% from December to February after all charters were renewed.


When the head of Youth Protection efforts is arrested and BSA claims he had no contact with boys - they're lying. THis guy came up through the ranks and had been a SE - reports out of FLA said he took week long sailing trips with only 1 other adult and 6 kids at the High Adventure base annually. Would you want your kid to be one of the 6 on that boat, "two deep leadership" or not? What if they BOTH were pedophiles - and it's NOT inconceivable? BSA DOES cover things up at all levels and despite all those chld protection policies - as the case just opened (over BSA's strident protests) in Grand Teton Council shows. 24 boys were molested and at least 7 officials at all levels had been warned but did nothing over 6 years. The files are damning to BSA. BSA didn't even inform all the parents of victims. Would you want to be aprent of one of those kids? How many others remain sealed?


I know a long serving Socutmaster who's thinking about quitting over that hypocrisy - he feels smeared by mere association. But BSA doesn't see that they SHOULD be held to the HIGHEST standard. If they don't want to follow a law, they ignore it, get sued, lose and tehn lobby for a special exemption to the law. If you want to be a "private organization" be a "private organization" - and drop the "Learning for Life" and all else where you're seeking payment and benefits from govenrnmental entities.


The problem behind declining enrollments is that dedicated Scouters are simply walking away, quietly. They don't want to "hurt" Scouting but they find they can't change it and have scruples enough not to be part of the hypocrisy. Others stay despite everything trying to avoid "politics" for the sake of the boys. Whole organizations have walked away from sponsoring B.S.A. units - protesting its "values" only making BSA more conservative and autocratic.


B.S.A. seems to prefer forcing dissisents out instead of answering their questions and addressing their concerns. Volunteers DON'T have a voice in BSA though this organization is suupposed to represent us. District reps are elected on a whole slate that has to be voted up or down. Those reps are chosen by a hand-picked "nominating committee" No competing candidates or slates are allowed. These "elected" representatives get to vote on Executive Board candidates and all other "elected" officials - again only as a whole slate that is again "hand-picked" This is about as democratic and "representative" as Communism in Bulgaria was. The "representatives" coming out of this "democratic" system are our Council's "representatives" to National.


Nobody wants to talk about what's bad - nobody wnats to admit that some things ARE possible. But ignoring these issues only lets them get worse.


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I can understand your anger with professional scouting, when you read some of these things you sometimes want to chuck it all away. But, as a former DE myself I came to two conclusions about Scouting on a council and National level, first there are more good scouting pro's out there than bad who really want to and are doing good things for scouting on a district level. Secondly, the BSA will never be perfect, just like any corporation, there will be scandals as long as it exsists. The question is do we throw the baby out with the bathwater, of course not, people who understand scouting knows what it stands for and will continue to support it.


You also mentioned another vital key in your post, what happens on the unit level. That is where it all happens and is the most important aspect of scouting. If the kids are getting a quality program, having fun and learning to be good, decent people that is all that matters. It is on the unit level that the youth are learning the skills that will last a lifetime, not by district or national but by you and all the other scouters out there. That should be your focus. The Mr. Smith's will come and go, but a boy looking up to you for help and as a role model will go on forever. Don't give up on scouting just make it better one boy at a time.

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There are dozens of district and council scouting positions, which you have depend on the size and strength of the council. Ultimately the responsibilities and hiearchy are determined by the SE but basically from entry level up a common configuration is


District Executive

Senior District Executive

District Director

Field Director

Asst. Scout Executive

Scout Executive


Also somewhere usually between DD and SE you can find positions such as Ranger, Finance Director, Properties Director, Scout Reach Executive, Marketing Director etc.


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OK, OK, I have been lurking. And again I have been drawn into a very interesting conversation. The hierarchy presented in the above posting is correct for smaller councils. larger councils tend to have a slightly more complext org chart


District Executive (inexperienced) (Class 0 - 2)

Senior District Executive (experienced) (Class 3-4)

District Director (supervises other DE's or SDE's)(Class 4 - 7)

Field Director - Program Director - Finance Director (Class 4 - 8)

Director of Program - D of Support Services - D of Finance (Class 6 - 10)

Director of Field Services (Class 8-12)

Scout Executive (Small Class 800 - 600 "Metro" or Large Class 500 - 200)


Compensation is completely preformance based. In other words, a professional is not assured any sort of raise or COLA adjustment if he or she does not earn that raise through increase in youth served, volunteers recruited, money raised, % of quality units, Activity participation, rechartered and new units, etc.


As far as the issues that jkhny has raised, I haven't seen any specifics mentioned that would indicate that a SE wasn't doing a good job. Perhaps you disagree with the direction that the council is taking, that doesn't mean that he is doing a poor job. Now if you have evidence of fraud or mismangement, than you should pursue it. If you simply disagree with direction, you should engage in a conversation to change that direction.


My experience working for the BSA is that our professionals are very good people overall. Of course when you have a group of nearly 10,000 employees nationwide, you are going to have some problems. After all we are employing humans. Just think of your high school class. How large was it and how many of those people have been involved in something untorrid. However, it has never been my experience that the BSA covers up or ignores problems. It is true that when you deal with personel issues, no company issues a press relase to discuss the details. That is illegal. Typically problems are dealt with directly and quickly. Get to know your professionals. Nearly all of them really care about the Scouting program. Many are Eagle Scouts or former Scouts themselves. They care, they want to support you. Unfortunately they can't be everywhere, all the time. But they should be there to respond to your concerns and most of all recruit quality adult volunteers to support you at the district and council levels.

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A hundred or so people show up at an Exec Board Meeting to protest what's occurring in a COuncil,


Dedicated and experienced volunteers - those NOT already removed from positions - are still walking away from supporting Council - with time and contributions


The core of your volunteer base is trying to organize COR's to oust the SE


Despite widely touted claims of enrollment growth, there is none - in fact losses (and though we aren't one of those COuncils where there's enrollment fraud - our new inner city units "disappeared" dead units are still on District rosters and tehre's a 30% difference between 12/04 numbers and 2/05......but seeing as BSA cares so much anbout that issue that any volunteer that raises that gets threatened with removal - and some have been....


when your DIstrict Chairmen have complained to National - but nothing is done......


Well, even the Board sems to be getting annoyed now.....but that's after 3 years of damage



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I wonder what the evaluation cycle is for SEs, and who actually does it.?


We had an SE who was canned some two years ago, but like jkhny, it was not until after the damage was done. Although Im all for giving people enough room to do their job, it seems that these guys have either too much freedom or too few controls.


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My SE was canned (but others are saying he deicded to leave...yeah right) about december-january. Too much damage but its a step forward. I did notice that he made 70k plus benefits. Very cheap to live around here and that is a good amount of money for my area.

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jkhny, I'm curious about one thing you wrote. Correct me if I'm wrong but I understood you to write that the cost of living is less up north than in GA, specifically: "But he's still living up north where it's alot cheaper and he's still making one big increase over what he was being paid in GA."


While I would personally be pleased to bring in $135K, it isn't an outrageous salary. And interestingly, I was surprised to learn that the lower cost of living for the South was a myth. Let's see, all of my utilities combined max out in the worst month at less than $200. My relative with a smaller home in NY...$1200 per month for heat alone. I'm not sure it's a myth, the South seems to cost less to me. H'mm, wonder about those taxes....


Also in an earlier question you asked, "Why is it that Paid professionals are held in such low regard?"

As much as I enjoy the critical view, I believe you may be stating something that is not in evidence. What makes you think they are held in low regard? By whom? By how many? Every time I have observed this SE, he is surrounded by people who seem quite friendly and supportive.

In order to answer your rhetorical question, a large sample of opinions must be gathered and assessed statistically. Has this been done? I would be interested in the numbers.


While I think it would be interesting to see the actual compensation packages for everyone in the BSA, I probably won't waste the time running to the web site. I have almost no influence over these packages and if Ronald Reagan's "magic of the free market" works, any salaries that are out of line will eventually be corrected by that market. I just hope the boys remain OK in the process.

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