District/Council Activites -VS- Troop Activities

[hotdesk]

I have a quick question.

 

The District planned a Merit Badge Opp. Day, with non Eagle-Required Merit Badges. The troop knew about this and then planned a Biking trip since only six scouts signed up.

 

One of our leaders, whose mom is the COR, and has no scouts in the troop, and has been SM, Troop Outdoor Coordinator, and is now the Advancment Chairman, and District Eagle Board Coordinator, disapproved of the trip. He also went as far as to say that the troop is there to support the Council/District and his mother had said before that District/Council Events come first.

 

The Troop Committee members who decided to plan the trip, but not get Committee "Approval" decided to take the trip. Several Scouts and Committee Members (4) and an ASM went. The only problem that anyone can see is that he has never been turned down in his requests since the Committee Chair doesn't like to say no because he doesn't want to make the COR upset.

 

So my questions are

 

1) Should we have gone

2) Do District/Council Activities come first

[OldGreyEagle]

The wishes of the Scouts, through the JLC, comes first.

 

[Mike F]

Greetings, Hotdesk!

 

I usually group District/Council activities into one of two categories: Must-dos and optional. Major events, like Camporees, are Must-do. Merit Badge days might fit into the optional category.

 

Another consideration might be letting the 6 scouts go to the MB day while the rest of the troop goes on the bike trip. I dont like to split the troop, but might be a good compromise since some of the scouts had already signed up. Have to consider whether missing the 6 MB guys would put the rest of the troop in a bind are any of them critical leaders? I know I know theyre all critical in one way or another Were looking for a possible compromise here.

 

YIS

-mike

 

[Mike F]

Nevermind -- I like OGE's answer that popped in while I was writing better.

-mike(This message has been edited by Mike F)

[JimmyD]

Whatever the kids want. Way we run is Troop comes first then other activities we really never run into this problem.

[FScouter]

Yeah, what did the Patrol Leaders' Council have planned before the adults nosed in?

[Bob White]

The PlC should consider the events offered by the District and Council, but it is their decision. Adults can force them to put in on the calendar but that won't make the scouts go. The scouts need to be able to choose their activities if you want them to participate.

 

bob White

[dsteele]

Let me tackle these two questions in opposite order:

 

"So my questions are

 

1) Should we have gone

2) Do District/Council Activities come first "

 

Let me apologize in advance -- the two questions are definite hot buttons for me and I feel very strongly about the answers. Well . . . okay, the second question is actually the only Dsteele hot button. But it's a big one.

 

I'll also say that I think Hotdesk made the right choice. So did his troop, and what I have to say has nothing to do about him.

 

Ooooohhhh -- there's a charge building inside of me and it's got the energy of an 11 year old Boy Scout. Look out! Here it comes!

 

"So my questions are

 

1) Should we have gone

2) Do District/Council Activities come first "

 

The answer to 2) in my book is "absolutely, categorically, NO! Period. End of report."

 

District and council activities exist, or should exist (realize I'm writing from the book of Steele supplemented by a lifetime experience with the program at an extremely accellerated rate and the benefit of having worked for 3 Scout Executives) to supplement unit program, not usurp it.

 

In other words, your troop outing is more important than your attendance at the camporee. Boys learn best from their patrol leaders and senior patrol leader and troop leadership. The rubber hits the road at troop events, not district or council events.

 

Don't get me wrong there is a place for district or council events -- when they can provide stuff a singe unit couldn't on their own, but they should be a supplement to unit program, not a substitute.

 

I'm also not saying you should not attend district or council events, but I think you should help to make sure they're something special for the boys.

 

I once served an inner-city district when I was a young district executive, and we (the volunteers and I) decided that we would put on a district activity once a month for the inner-city units so we could guarantee that they had a monthly activity. We quickly figured out that 1) it would be way too much work for us, but more importantly 2) that our role was to make those units strong enough to have their own outings once a month.

 

We build units, not programs. We build leaders, not eaters of fish. (some will know that I reference the phrase of teaching a man to fish rather than giving him fish)

 

Did the unit do "wrong" by not attending the Merit Badge Opp. day? Only if the PLC wanted to and the adults vetoed it.

 

Please don't take this post to mean that I'm against district or council activities. I'm not. However, all have to pass my test against the aims and methods of the Boy Scouts of America. As well as answer the question, "How is this supporting unit program rather than detracting from it?"

 

When the question is answered, my approval is given. Until then, "pbbbbblllltttt!"

 

DS

[Fat Old Guy]

"not eaters of fish."

 

I thought that you meant Roman Catholics.

 

 

[Fat Old Guy]

I go with the "whatever the Scouts want" (within reason). Your adults need to look at what's important. Which activity better fits into the Scouting concept? Merit badges (some parents think that they are important) or an outdoor activty planned and executed by the Scouts?

 

When you say "Troop Committee," do you mean the adults?

 

At the risk of sounding like someone else, your adults need to get some training.

[OldGreyEagle]

"not eaters of fish."

 

"I thought that you meant Roman Catholics."

 

Hey FOG try to keep up, we catholics can eat meat on fridays as long as they are not during Lent

 

Looks like you could use some catholic retraining

 

 

 

 

 

[matuawarrior]

Troop activities planned by the PLC are First in our book. District/Council Activities are options.

 

IF our Jr. Leaders, individually, committed to helping out with the District/Council's MB Activity as C.I.T's, then, they are highly encouraged to follow through.

 

The rest of the Scouts would go on the Trip.

 

Matua

[Proud Eagle]

In my troop (as in the one I am a member of, not the nonexistant one I charter) we always make the Scouts aware of Council/District events during calendar planning. We then encourage them to use camporees and the like as part of the troop program. If camporees are well planned they should be a great addition to a troop's program. If they are not well planned then they can seriously detract from a troop's program.

[buffalo2]

Gotta put the PLCs choice first for this one, but with that said doesn't mean that some of your adult leaders couldn't support that District function for the day. This could work out as a nice opportunity for some of your less-experienced leaders to gain some perspective...

Program support takes many forms; not all are direct.

[hotdesk]

It seems, from the replys that I have recieved, that you all need a little bit more information.

 

1. The troop did go, but this District/Troop leader tried to get his other adult leaders to cancel the event.

 

2. He had said that "the troop exist to assit the Council/District" and his mother, our COR, said that "District and Council activities come first. The guy said it to the Outdoor Coordinator and the COR said it to me when I was the SPL and was outlining the calendar from the Annual Troop Planning Conference.

 

At this time we had planned on going caving in southern IL. She knew that MBOD were that weekend as was strong set not to let us go. The Committee usually votes the way she wants to because she has been there FOREVER and no one really wants to upset her. They want to keep her happy and this sometimes gets in the way of what the PLC wants to do and keeps the Committee Meetings lasting longer than they should.

 

So, since the calendar was tabled at the committee meeting it was purposed at, it never came up since. Therefore the outing was never "approved" except for the fact that 4 of the 9 Committe Members acted as the adult leadership and that the Tresauer and CC let there sons attend. Plus this was the first time that the District/Troop adult leader has not been listend too and some adult leaders (mainly the Outdoor Coord. and my father, the SM) are kinda worried about what will happen at the TONIGHTS COMMITTEE MEETING.

 

So, to repharse the questions

 

1. What should be said about District/Council events coming first and the fact that the District/Troop leader said that the troop is there to support the District.

 

2. The troop going without "approval" from the committee

 

3. The adult leaders who are worried about the outcome of tonight's Committee Meeting because of comments made by the District/Troop Leader and our COR, his mother.