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SR540Beaver

Tap Out Question

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Here is from the first post in the thread

MB says

 

'We have a few Scouts who could not make our District's tap out this year (mandatory band thing). They are not going to summer camp this year because they are doing NT and it is too expensive for them to do both. District is not doing any unit-based tap outs but the boys really don't want to miss out on the tap out ceremony."

 

Band, football, wrestling and life happen, I contend the boys could attend summer camp tap out night or another districts tap out ceremony instead of holding a unit specific tap out ceremony and I don't disagree with the Chapter Adult advisor at not wanting to set a precident for doing it at a unit level. It was never intended to be unit based.

 

The service is offered by the lodge, I am sorry it doesn't fit your youths schedule. What happens if the ordeal doesn't fit their schedule??? gonna do a unit level ordeal????

Ok, I will take a crack at this. BD, you simply cannot read. Or maybe it is comprehension that is the issue. Did you miss the part where MB said that the unit-based service was something his lodge used to provide? Did you miss the fact that his scouts and he went through the proper channels to request this service? Did you miss the part where the scout in charge of the lodge said yes to their request by adult advisor said no? Did you miss the part where the higher level adult across all the lodges was also p.o.'d at the local loadge adult for not providing the service as requested? Did you miss the part where MB's own scouts offered to organize and form an ordeal team to assist the lodge in future with ordeal and other such unit based ceremonies?

 

Each lodge is different. Your inability to comprehend what he is saying is nothing short of silly. Unless you know him personally you have no clue whether or not his district or council offer summer tap outs. Guess what? Many do not! What should he do? Drive 9 hours at great expense to get something that is offered by his lodge locally? You are a great one to throw around money and elitism when it rears it's head to your unit, but when someone else tries the low cost approach and follows the boy-led principles you get combative with them?

 

Seriously, try reading slowly and perhaps more than once. The fact you wrote this, "I don't disagree with the Chapter Adult advisor at not wanting to set a precident for doing it at a unit level. It was never intended to be unit based" shows you did not understand a single thing MB posted. So go back and re-read what he wrote before you get all indignant.

 

Or are you p.o.'d because his unit might be able to afford to outfit an OA team (not cheap) and you see this as some sort of class battle? Rhetorical question. I think I know the answer.

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Here is from the first post in the thread

MB says

 

'We have a few Scouts who could not make our District's tap out this year (mandatory band thing). They are not going to summer camp this year because they are doing NT and it is too expensive for them to do both. District is not doing any unit-based tap outs but the boys really don't want to miss out on the tap out ceremony."

 

Band, football, wrestling and life happen, I contend the boys could attend summer camp tap out night or another districts tap out ceremony instead of holding a unit specific tap out ceremony and I don't disagree with the Chapter Adult advisor at not wanting to set a precident for doing it at a unit level. It was never intended to be unit based.

 

The service is offered by the lodge, I am sorry it doesn't fit your youths schedule. What happens if the ordeal doesn't fit their schedule??? gonna do a unit level ordeal????

The story changed significantly from its initial telling.....

 

I could careless......Just interesting how the story changed.

 

I find it interesting that the boys want to be part of a ceremony team and something they have not experienced first hand. So how do the boys know they want to join the ceremony team???? whose idea is that???? probably not the boys.

 

So explain to me again how unit level call out ceremonies are low cost, So what happens if every troop in the district want a unit specific ceremony????? the ceremony team will be busy for month and cost them a bunch of time and money for fuel. I drove the boys 4 hours round trip to a camporee for their ceremony. My choice. I didn't cause a big stink because the local chapter didn't offer a call out ceremony, just found a way to provide my boys a program.........Much different than raising a ruckus to get my way.

 

I believe his request is out of line.

 

 

I am sorry my complaining about rich folks is bothering you......You guys are worried about paying for that trip to glacier national park and you next nice new SUV......I am just worried about collecting $10 for next weeks campout and adding tenting for the new scouts.... Would you like to buy a nice Sub????? they are $5.

 

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Lets keep it civil in here please. A Scout is courteous. So are Scout leaders, and that means everybody in this thread needs to ratchet back the angst.

 

MB: good luck with your chosen action plan here. Hopefully the ceremony will be worth it for your lads and when they go to the Ordeal they will grasp it's rich symbolism and it will motivate them to better themselves inside and outside of Scouting.

 

Yours in Scouting,

Sentinel947

 

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The story changed significantly from its initial telling..... I could careless......Just interesting how the story changed

 

The only thing that changed was your undrstanding. To others it was pretty clear. This is a service he said his lodge provided but an adult who advises the lodge said no. What part about that do you not get?

 

Let me make it easy on you. You drive to the scout shop and ask for a Tenderfoot patch. They tell you they have one but then the manager comes and says the badge is in the back and he does not feel like getting if for you. He's denied you a service the shop provides. Get it now?

 

I'm done on this topic. You don't get it and that's fine. Have a blessed day.

 

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I think it is an unreasonable request

 

Krampus with your line of thinking, which is flawed by the way....... Here the way your should actually read....

 

My boys earn tenderfoot, but the scout shop isn't open hours that are convenient to me....So I call the store clerk and ask her to drop the patches off at my troop meeting because my boys and I are too busy to make during their store hours. She says no......So I call her manager who says "why that is ridiculous we will have the entire staff show up and give your boys their patches even though it is a huge sacrifice for all of them and will impact their personal lives by taking time away from family and personal activities......"

 

This isn't about the lodge not offering the service, it is just not when old MB can partake.

 

I think my version is a bit more accurate example of what we are talking about here.

 

 

I get it.....MB is looking after his scouts........

 

Thx for the blessing I can use all I can get.

 

 

 

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Ya MB

 

whose on the adult power trip.

 

I think your stepping way over the line on this.....

 

 

So far we have three of us telling you don't do it.

 

Your taking a council/district level thing and bringing it to the troop level......It was not intended to be that way......

 

 

 

They way I view the OA is the next step in scouting for the youth. They are beginning to spread their wings and experience life beyond the microsociety of the troop. I am excited for my boys...All of them have registered for the Ordeal, I am going to drive them out friday night and bring them back sunday morning.

I hope by "I" you meant you and your second adult.

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I think it is an unreasonable request

 

Krampus with your line of thinking, which is flawed by the way....... Here the way your should actually read....

 

My boys earn tenderfoot, but the scout shop isn't open hours that are convenient to me....So I call the store clerk and ask her to drop the patches off at my troop meeting because my boys and I are too busy to make during their store hours. She says no......So I call her manager who says "why that is ridiculous we will have the entire staff show up and give your boys their patches even though it is a huge sacrifice for all of them and will impact their personal lives by taking time away from family and personal activities......"

 

This isn't about the lodge not offering the service, it is just not when old MB can partake.

 

I think my version is a bit more accurate example of what we are talking about here.

 

 

I get it.....MB is looking after his scouts........

 

Thx for the blessing I can use all I can get.

 

 

Lord, you still miss the point. You may think the request is wrong but IT A SERVICE THE LODGE OFFERS!!

 

Is your need to be right that overwhelming you cannot understand that? Krampus was spot on with the analogy. You are the one who does not get it. I'll stop with that.

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We had a few guys miss tap out for some reason when I was a kid. We just got a few of the OA members from the troop, they took off their shirts and put on their sashes and did the tap out without warning one Monday night. As far as I know, it didn't cause any earthquakes and the lodge didn't disband or anything.

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Ya MB

 

whose on the adult power trip.

 

I think your stepping way over the line on this.....

 

 

So far we have three of us telling you don't do it.

 

Your taking a council/district level thing and bringing it to the troop level......It was not intended to be that way......

 

 

 

They way I view the OA is the next step in scouting for the youth. They are beginning to spread their wings and experience life beyond the microsociety of the troop. I am excited for my boys...All of them have registered for the Ordeal, I am going to drive them out friday night and bring them back sunday morning.

Nope it was I and if your eluding that it violates YPT you are incorrect, no one on one contact.....

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Our troop has two members that need to attend the ordeal soon but have not been tapped out. The understanding is that the tap out is optional.

I expect that is still the case?

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2 hours ago, wisihalacon said:

Our troop has two members that need to attend the ordeal soon but have not been tapped out. The understanding is that the tap out is optional.

I expect that is still the case?

The “tap out” is optional. It is not an official ceremony of the OA like Ordeal or Brotherhood. Many Lodges do different things depending on size. Some Lodges do a Lodge wide call out, others do it by chapter and yet others have no ceremony at all. If they were elected, they are eligible to complete their Ordeal. 

 

I didnt stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I am a Lodge Adviser. 

Edited by SR540Beaver
Fat fingers
  • Upvote 2

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As the Beaver said it is totally optional.   It is intended as a public recognition of the scouts who were elected  by their troop,as they are not allowed to talk  about the Ordeal to non members and its kind of expected that an arrowman is humble enough to not go around showing off his new sash and lodge flap.   

In most troops getting elected is a pretty big deal.  Its one thing when you earn some merit badges at summer camp and get a star or life rank patch to wear, but when your peers tell you by voting you into the Order that they consider you to be an example of what a scout should be...

and welcome to the forum!

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Oddly enough I am dealing with a mother of a scout in the OA that is making up odd stories about the OA. She claims that any Lodge, in this case, Tupelo Lodge can make up any rules as they see fit. I don't believe her. I believe she is making up stories to support her son.

Is it possible for a lodge such as Tupelo Lodge to override the optional nature of the tap out ceremony? From the start of this issue I have been under the impression that the mother and son have been making up stories to suit their own vision of what they think the OA should do rather than determining how the OA operates.

Despite the clear answers provided here and me relaying those answers to the mother and son they continue to pretend that there are other factors they are privy to that others are not aware of. I find that attitude to be dishonest at best.

I may also need to contact the head of Tupelo Lodge to put an end to these shenanigans. How do I manage that?

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