I am so fed up and disgusted I am ready to quit SCOUTS!

[Joni4TA 10]

After several months of unselfish volunteerism, meeting obstacle after obstacle in accomplishing simple tasks within my Pack, I believe I am ready to call it quits. I can't fight the clique any longer....

 

I am frequently undermined, constantly resisted, ignored, and unappreciated. I am treated like I am meddling in other people's affairs. And all I was trying to do was help.... simple things like get a Pack's advancements straightened out (volunteered for Advancement chair), provide our boys with the recognition they deserve and have worked so hard for (went to everyone's den meetings and went through their scout's handbooks recording their accomplishments to enter into PackMaster), help with scout recruitment (printed flyers and set-up their disbursement at our elementary school) and fundraising (have participated in several bake sales and volunteered to be the popcorn kernal). When I got to this Pack, no Den leader kept ANY advancement record on ANY of the kids, there were no advancements given and none of the leaders were educated about the resources for record keeping and advancements. Some dens didn't even know there was such a thing as belt loops!!!! Our CubMaster, who is also a den leader, had PackMaster, and only used it as a computer "phone book."

 

I insisted on a financial planning meeting because our committee was in disarray, we were told we were broke. The Treasurer, married to the CubMaster shows up to the meeting and 1)doesn't have the checkbook 2)has no idea where the bank statements are 3)has never balanced the Pack's checkook and 4)insists that her husband usually takes care of that (The CubMaster). Am I wrong because I question the financial status of our Pack given these circumstances? What's worse is CubMaster tells us we have $100 dollars in the account but he, too has never balanced the checkbook..... when our Committee Chair gets involved, she petitions our Charter Org. for a donation, they give us $500, Comm. Chr. then goes through the checkbook, bank statements (though many were missing), goes to the bank, backtracks, and discovers not only do we not have $100 in our account, we had an extra $500 that no one even knew existed!!!! And I am still wrong to question who's keeping the records on this Pack?

 

Items are purchased with no committee approval, things like baker's tents, zippered-closed shade bungaloes and dining flies... $860 worth of "NEEDS"... for the Pack, and I find out the CubMaster takes them along when he participates in Troop functions!!!! Well I am also a Comm. Member on the Troop and I am FRIED about all this.

 

In Sept., we had a ScoutMaster ready to take over when the current SM leaves.... and everyone talked about what a great idea it was, including the CubMaster. Now that the time has come for the change in command, the CubMaster wants to dump the Cub Pack and run to be the ScoutMaster... in my opinion, he's done nothing for the Cubs that would warrant my vote into the Troop as a leader!

 

Our current CubMaster doesn't encourage family values, doesn't encourage other Pack and Den leaders to participate in pack planning (he wants to make all the decisions himself), doesn't encourage scouts and dens to perform skits, doesn't encourage and remain open to parents or suggestions from potential volunteers, new leaders, doesn't offer to teach or provide new, unskilled leaders with tools to succeeed. Instead he complains about how they lack as a den leader or lack as a parent.... He doesn't encourage anyone but himself to get awards.... very self-serving individual. And resents when others "out-shine" him in any way. (Which is why he now wants to put his name in the hat for ScoutMaster and dump the Cubs... because he doesn't want to be out-scouted.

 

CubMaster resents me because I have insisted advancements only go through me! (I am the advancement chair!) He wasn't filling out Advancement Reports for District/Council, and was just picking up awards for the kids in HIS den... so I said NO, I need to record them in PackMaster and I need to file the proper paperwork at District. I was going to take over advancements for the Troop... over my dead body will I be forced into the same relentlessly obstacled position with the SAME PERSON in the Troop as well as the Pack....

 

The person that was going to take over as ScoutMaster in the Troop would have brought 15 years scouting experience into the Troop and now he's quit the Troop and is looking for another Troop to support. Along with him people are leaving the Troop because they can't bear to see how the CubMaster that lacks people skills will run the Troop, a dedicated Committee Member, an Asst. ScoutMaster, possibly a third leader and at least 4 boy scouts are leaving as a result of this....

 

Did I mention that I have no children in the Pack, and one son in the Troop??? I wonder... does the word SUCKER appear on my forehead or something? I love Scouting, and I love the ideals in the program, I am trained and I enjoy what I do, FOR THE BOYS! But it only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch... and I think I am about volunteered out... I've been a Den leader, a committee member, I've been a den mother, blue & gold committee, run events, never grumbled and always gave of myself freely. Now I look at one disgusting person and I think... WHY am I HERE???

 

Any suggestions from any of you who've been around long enough to see cliques and political kudzu in these types of Units? Any advice for me before I lose it?

 

Thanks!

 

[OneHour 11]

Welcome to the pain, the trial-and-tribulation, the frustration, the joy, the happiness, and the satisfaction of being a Scouter. Yes ... the later three characteristics do exist and they are the reasons why there still so many Scouters selfishlessly give up their time for the ideals.

 

The answer ... the Committee! You should seek to resolve the issue with the Committee. The Committee ensures the Pack needs are addressed. The Cubmaster is king in his Program world, but he is under the jurisdiction of the Committee. The Committee set who's, when's, where's, how's, and what's of the Pack. If the Committee is broken, then follow up the food chain. Seek advice with your District Commissioner. Okinawa, hmmm., you might have limited choice there. Charter Organization Representative is another good source. He/she has the vested interest as well.

 

Don't give up on scouting, because scouting won't give up on you and your son! As I have told my Director, I rather manage paid employees than volunteers, but I learned so much by leading a group of volunteers. Good luck.

 

By way, like you and everyone else on this forum, I am trying my best to erase that word "sucker" off my forehead! (This message has been edited by OneHour)

[evmori 11]

The only thing I can say at this point is OUCH!

 

I'll comment more later.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[mk9750 11]

OneHour is right. the Cubmaster works for the committee chair! Same as in boy Scouts, the Scoutmaster works for (read ... is hired by) the Committee Chair. the Charter Organization (represented by the Charter Organization Rep) approves all leaders. If this guy is the dud it seems, the committee chair, the comittee, and the COR ought to be made aware of this and take action. Once in the position, the Cubmaster should have pretty much free reign to MC the Pack meetings, make up skits and ceremonies, etc. But that's where his job ends and someone else's begins. No way should he be making policy, no way he should be handling the check book, no way should he be running the Pack!

 

I implore you, as she who sounds like the one reasonable voice, not to quit. Take this to the proper channels: CC, then COR, then maybe District Executive. If you are right about him, someone will see that he must be corrected or replaced.

 

In reading your post, I had to look to see where you are from, as what you described was amazingly similiar to an experience I just barely left behind. The man who replaced me as CM was just like your guy sounds. Because I had moved on the Boy Scouts, I figured the probelm was not mine anymore, so I did nothing about it. There wasn't anyone left who was strong enough, or had the intestinal fortitude, to work to correct the problem. the end result? I left a Pack of 71 boys 3 years ago. He has been All Everything there for those three years. The Pack now has 23 boys in it I hear.

 

Please make the stand. If not you, then who?

 

Good Luck!

 

Mark

[packsaddle 753]

Joni4TA, I'm about to go TDY so I'll try to make this short. Neither you nor any other honest volunteer is a 'sucker'. The 'suckers' are the ones who don't get the benefit of your dedication because of their lack of it. You will get a lot of advice on how to tackle the problems you list: equipment, records, advancement, treasury, etc. I recommend that you do NOT quit, but keep trying.

 

Fighting the fight might help one's mood but I try not to let things like these affect the real goal that I believe exists for good adult leaders. This is not to say I don't get frustrated, I do. I have felt much of the same frustration you feel during my stints in various positions. I try to keep my focus on the only thing that is really important...the boys. When I do that, and see their bright faces, so full of promise, it is clear to me that they really are the ones who make the troop and the program...all we do is give some help and guidance to keep things on an even keel. All that other stuff just seems, well, petty.

Trying to keep this short, don't quit, the boys are better with you than without.

(or as my coffee cup says, 'Don't let the turkeys get you down')

 

[SR540Beaver 116]

Joni4TA,

 

I agree with the other folks here. I have finally taken the plunge in becoming a scouter and will be serving our pack as the Committee Chair. I volunteered to get trained and was recruited to be the Committee chair.....by the Cubmaster! Like most packs, a lot of our scouters fill in where they are needed, when they are needed. They all seem to have a pretty good relationship. Our treasurer recently left and the Cubmaster had to take over that function. Out Committee Chair's son is crossing over to Boy Scouts and we are losing him. Our Cubmaster was going to have to wear that hat too. When I told him I wanted to get trained, he jumped on me like a duck on a june bug. I was thinking along the lines of Asst. Den Leader for my son's Webelos den, but he had designs on me for Committee......so he could concentrate on being Cubmaster. He'll gladly hand the checkbook to someone when he/we can find someone willing. I'm sorry you are experiencing a self serving, egotistical Cubmaster. Like the others, I hope you stick it out and try to convince other people in the pack to follow the program correctly. There is no reason why the pack can't function by the rules and be a positive experience for everyone. If it becomes to unbearable, move to another unit. If this guy continues to exert the kind of control and poor leadership he has in the past, he will end up with a tiny unit of loyal supporters and the other units in town will benefit from growing their units out of his mistakes. Hang in there! The boys deserve a scouter like you!

[yarrow 10]

Some areas or schools are large enough to support two or more packs.........hmmmm

[dsteele 20]

Joni4Ta, you are hearby sentenced to attend as many Roundtables as you desire. I suggest at least one, preferrably all.

 

Okay, so I can't sentence you, but I still stand by my advice. Please accept my apologies if you're a regular roundtable attendee.

 

I suggest this because you will meet people, some with lots of knots and experience. You'll also find your District Executive and probably your district commissioner lurking about. Have a chat with them. They're probably well aware of the problems in your pack and would love to have a trained person to help get them in to explain the way things ought to work.

 

If nothing else, you'll be noticed by district level folks who may involve you in other, less aggravating scouting experiences.

 

Check your council's newsletter for roundtable dates and locations. They're open to all Scouters, so don't let anyone tell you that you can't go or that you're not the pack representative.

 

DS

[Joni4TA 10]

Thank you, all for the replies of support and honesty.

 

I have attended every roundtable since November (just got here in September), have volunteered also on the District (I am the Dist. Membership person), have never missed a committee meeting or parent/leader meeting. I am a very involved committee member, and unfortunately our CC is leaving in June, and the person taking her place "doesn't want to make waves" and also has a son in CubMaster's den. I really do feel I am doing all that I can do. I have solicited advice from the District, especially since I am also involved there. I am within minutes of asking for a financial audit because I am so disgusted with the way records are kept.

 

I suppose I should have clarified when I said "ready to quit SCOUTS!".... I am certainly ready to quit THIS PACK and TROOP! But I would never abandon Scouting as a whole. I have one son, who's an Eagle Scout, another who is a first-year Boy Scout (working on Tenderfoot), one Cadet Girl Scout, and two future Brownies =) (They're 2yrs old and one 6 months still in the womb!)

 

My husband is a 14+ yr Scouter, been everything from Den Leader to ScoutMaster throughout all that time in several units across the globe, has his Wood Badge, OA... and until recently (upon my insistence) has never been put in for Veteran Service Award or ANY knots... He maintains he's never been in scouting for his own personal recognition. I feel the same way, been in scouting for over 6 years and never once put myself in or expected any committee to put me in for any leader awards. I am here to see the boys get awards, not myself.

 

Just wish our CubMaster and his best buddy, Asst. CubMaster felt the same way.... those two are the only two leaders who HAVE leader knots.. and guess what? Our committee (which I am on) never put them in for them and was never made aware... they put themselves in, but never bothered to consider our other dedicated Den Leaders for awards either.

 

My family came to this unit with a BSA Family Award that we worked very hard to earn throughout an entire summer... and CubMaster and Asst. CubMaster noticed it on my transfer form... commented that they never heard of the award before... within 6 weeks suddenly both of them and their families had "earned and received" the BSA Family award. I am the advancements chair and neither one of them went through me for it, they just put themselves in... a very indicative representation of what I put up with here. They're in it for themselves and if they and their own children are not involved in "it", "it" isn't important.

 

I refuse to watch the same mentality and lack of scouting ideals being forced upon the Troop.... these men don't want to run a Boy Scout Troop, they want to run a 3rd Year WEBELOS program... and I just can't stand it. They are currently patrol parents/asst. ScoutMasters in our Troop... they could care less that the other 2 patrols need help in leadership and have less than adequate parent involvement, with boys that could really use the Scouter guidance. Not one of the 3 Asst. ScoutMasters/parents in the one patrol are interested in applying their assistance into a patrol their son is not involved in. They want the entire Troop to be run and operated and leaded by THEM AND THEIR PATROL ONLY... and don't have room for other leaders or patrols.

 

These men have already hand-selected who they believe the Senior Patrol Leader should be in the future, plugging in their own sons/Scouts (who have only 6 months experience, just crossed over to the Troop in January) and discount other more experienced Scouts, some with 3-4 years simply because they believe their sons will then be able to lead the Troop by the end of summer camp. So it doesn't seem to matter to these men that there are other boys in that Troop that are capable. Because their children WILL BE CAPABLE, the other boys are apparently not welcome to leadership positions in their eyes. Same goes for the adult Leadership and any other Scout parents. These men ridicule other boys and their parents behind their backs and don't want to hear any suggestions for their leadership improvement. Since they feel they are capable, they don't believe anyone else should be involved in Adult leadership. They make decisions outside of the Troop meetings amongst themselves for their patrol and don't seem to want the entire Troop to run in any other fashion... and yes, boys are dropping like flies already... much like we lost half the Pack recruits from last September because of these same people

and their warped translation of Scouting ideals.

 

My husband has already made it clear to the administration, he has quit the Troop and is now looking for another Troop to serve in. My son will be moving to that Troop, once it's found and I will be, as well.

 

As far as the Pack, I am still undecided. I have managed to make some breakthroughs but am not convinced the politics in the Troop won't spill over into the Pack as well, as it's the same leaders I would have to deal with. With our committee chair leaving in June, who has been one of the main reasons I have stayed with the Pack, I can't see fighting the unapproachable inner circle that will be left in her wake.

 

I may get more deeply involved at District level and may even request a financial audit of my current Pack. I may have a discussion with the Dist. Commissioner about the issues, who is also a Military Command Chaplain, for advice and suggestions. Perhaps he can probe into the situation and rectify it. Other than that, I believe I will continue Scouting with another unit that has an understanding of Scouting ideals, BSA policies and implementation of the BSA program that more closely resembles my beliefs.

 

Please keep the advice coming. I am listening!

[Bob White 20]

Joni,

You will find the most frustrating part of scouting is the inability of many adults to play nice together.

 

There are a number of things that might help but to say which one would involve needing to hear the other side of the story from one or more of the other involved parties.

 

I can give you one piece of advice. Follow the teachings of the Serenity Prayer. One verse reads "Give me the patience to accept the things I cannot change". In the case of the cub pack, if the problems you sight are accurate, they have some real problems. That does not make them your problems. Since you are not a parent in that pack or a leader in that pack then you need to let it go. Let the Charter org., Leaders and parents fight their own battles.

 

As a parent in the troop you have a right to be concerned about safety, finances, youth protection and other issues involving your son. But pick you battles one at a time and understand you'll get more accomplished through cooperation than confrontation.

 

Good Luck,

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Joni4TA 10]

Bob White,

 

I am sorry, I think you may have misunderstood my involvement with the Pack. I am a leader in the Cub Pack.... I am the Advancement Chair, Fundraising Chair, "all around Committee Member", one of the only 3 active committee members other than the CubMaster and Asst. CubMaster. So I really am directly involved with the Pack at Leadership level and therefor have a vested interest in the way the Pack is run as a result.

 

It's the same difficult people in the Pack that have now infiltrated the Troop, which really just compounds the problems and marries the Pack problems into the Troop problems. The issues are the same with the same people, if that makes any sense?

 

I don't know... as I said, I am posting here, with the most objectivity I can, for advice and to listen to others with more experience. I realize there are two sides to every coin. But a true leader will subject him/herself to their peers for advice and suggestions, while an inadequate, self-serving leader will assume no one knows more than they do... and there is no need to ask anyone for advice nor include anyone in decision making...

[sst3rd 129]

Joni,

 

These leaders you mentioned, are they trained? Either way, the program is to be followed. I respect the situation you are in, but you can remove yourself and let the Pack die a natural death. Then, you can put your training and support with another Pack/Troop who follows the program.

If you stay at your current position, simply state your responsibilities as Advancement Committee Person, find the documentation that states this position, and stick to it. Attend the Committee meetings and give your report, and then sit back and see whatelse happens. Let it go. Allow all else to fall by the wayside. If you have a Unit Commissioner, he/she is responsible for the correct execution of the program. You may not have one, so ask your District for one. The Commissioner's reponsibilities are to review a Pack's/Troop's program, and to "support" its leaders in correctly running that program. It's up to you how far you want to go with this......

 

sst3rd

[Eamonn 61]

Man Oh Man, there is a lot going on here.

If you came to me with this list. I think that my first reaction would be : "Hey Lady Slow down"

It does sound like you are to say the least, not very happy, and this makes it seem that you are looking for a fight.

Slow down.

Stop trying to fix everything.

Do One Thing and do it well.

Try and focus on becoming a team player.

Involve the Unit Commissioner. He or She is there to help sort things out.

If you(Yes you !!) are unable to do these things, maybe the best thing for everyone, is for you to go elsewhere.

At the end of the day we are the BSA, much as we strive for perfection, we will never be a utopian society. We do at times have to settle for the idea that a clock that has stopped, is still right twice a day.

Your comments regarding veteran awards and knots had me shaking my head. I don't care if leaders opt to wear these or not. It does really irk me, when those who chose not to make a point of telling everyone.

Just for the record, I do wear mine and wear them with pride, not only to let the world know "Been there, did that," But also to let the leaders in my district know that, you will be recognized for your good work. I wear my 35 year pin, because I'm proud and thankful, for everything that Scouting has done for me. I have many good friends in Scouting who choose not to wear them, of just wear the one or two that they feel are the most meaning to them.

[ScoutNut 147]

Joni - I must say, that as much as I feel for you and your problems with the adults in your Troop & Pack, I also kind of agree with what Eamonn has to say.

 

Take a deep breath and try to look at this dispassionately. Yes, they are a pain in your anatomy, but are they really that bad,or are you just used to something WAY different? We do not have Packmaster, never had and have no plans to start. OK, we are kind of lax on the banking side of things (my inner accountant continues to grind teeth!), but we make due. As much as my fingers itch sometimes to grap the checkbook & put together a spreadsheet that really makes sense, I don't. Why? Because I can not & will not do everything! Enough of us (me included) wear way to many hats as it is. If we can get a warm body to volunteer for something why in heavens name would I take it over from them??!! Some subtle nudging in the right direction, yes. An aduit, no. Unless I felt something was done that was highly illeagle. We also have no formal recordkeeping of advancements. The leaders tell our advancment person what they need and he writes it up & gets it. Not perfect, but it could definately be worse! We talk to each other, the den leaders know their boys & their families, in some cases the den leaders keep their own records. Our achievement person does NOT require proof that an achievement has been earned (even if he has his suspisions). It is not his job. The den leaders word (& the filled n advancement form) is good enough.

 

For the Pack, you have gotten some good advice. Also, talk to your Unit Commissioner. He might know the people involved and be able to help. One more thing to think about, if this guy leaves CS for BS then you are rid of him in a position of authority. Now is the time to get someone in as CM who will do the job right!

 

For the Troop, these guys CANNOT appoint a SPL if they are calling this a boy-run troop. The PL, APL, SPL & ASPL are all positions that are voted on by the boys. Trust me, boys are not dumb! Sometimes a little thick (LOL), but not dumb. If they make a mistake and vote in a SPL who is just a puppet, sooner or later THEY will see it. At which point they will either vote him out of office or vote with their feet and leave the troop. You (& your whole family) are activly looking for a new troop. Find one that suits you more than your current one and transfer to it. It may sound cruel, but what the old troop does is no business of yours once you move. You can only do so much & you sure can't do everything for every unit!

 

If the politics in your Pack & Troop are just too much for you to handle, then don't beat yourself up over it. Move!

 

Nut

[Joni4TA 10]

I totally appreciate all the words of encouragement, suggestions and advice. And I have brought the issues to the attention of my District. I should mention I am on a small Japanese island on the Pacific Ocean and our council is headquartered in mainland Japan. I doubt I will ever see a member of our Council leadership and chances are I will never be graced with the presence of the Council Hut either... lol

 

Anyhow, I have explained some of the situations to our Senior Scout Executive, as well as the District Registrar and other District leaders. I have gone to them for advice and suggestions as I have here. They've been quite helpful, and it was one of the Dist. reps that suggested it may be financial audit time for this Pack, not myself. I however, totally agree. There is an issue of a missing $125 that I myself counted from a silent auction fundraiser. $125 of that income is still unaccounted for, since the beginning of March.

 

I will say, with the exception of myself, the only other two trained leaders in the Pack are the CubMaster and Asst. CubMaster. No one else is trained, no one else is youth protection trained, no other leaders are told about training dates or if they are, simply don't respond or are not interested in taking the training. Interesting since our Asst. CubMaster is supposed to be our Pack's person responsible to see that our leaders get Training. Also, our CubMaster will not agree to paying for their training even though the committee voted that the Pack would. Since CubM holds the checkbook, apparently he has the final say. Again, no one wants to make waves I suppose.

 

Anyhow, I have made a commitment to stick with the Pack until the end of May. I am covering a Den leader's absence due to a military deployment. And I promised this man, and the den parents that I would not let their boys fall through the cracks and that they would remain active in scouting while the leader and his assistant leader are on military orders. The CC, CM and ACM all knew for 2 weeks that this den had no meeting and needed a leader.... no one chose to act, so I did. When this Den leader returns, I will be leaving the Pack.

 

I am the District Summer Day camp program director (for the segment occuring at our Pack's local park) also and I understand I don't have to be Pack affiliated to run that, however I doubt I will get much cooperation either, at least from the leaders I deal with now. It will be their loss!

 

Aside from that I have realized I am beating a dead horse with the lack of support from the current Pack Administration and I have become ineffective as a leader/team player. I have not and never will be invited to "their team" and as a result can't really provide the Pack with my services. It seems to me I'm not needed nor wanted and in either case that amounts to a waste of my time to keep trying, only to pound another nail into my coffin with this Pack AND Troop.

 

I've met the same resistance with the Troop because any part of my involvement is resented by the same few people. And it's not just me, it's anyone outside of the "clique" who wants to be a part of the unit... we're all treated this way. And these are the issues being brought to the District.

 

As the District watches the Pack and Troop lose boys, leaders, and their refusal to participate in FOS, leading with their "only if it's for me, I'm for IT" mentality... more of the disgust will be exposed. In the meantime, I will take my family to the Troop that wants a boy-led troop and not a spoon-fed, ordered clique.

 

Thanks for all your words. I have spoken to a leader at another Troop and I will be transferring my son there on Monday! Needless to say my husband and myself will follow shortly. And in about a month I will bow out of the Pack Admin. gracefully and tactfully, without making a stir. It's not important to me to "let people know why I am leaving".... it's more important to me to get with THE REAL BSA program FINALLY!