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Is that the panel who will decide if a person is 100 years old and diagnosed as being in End Stage Renal Disease that providing dialysis is too expensive given expected life span and then associated costs? Then if 100 years old, how about 99 years? 98 years? etc?

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Was chatting with a co-worker the other day. She was very upset about what she heard on the news about Obama Death Panel, socialized medicine in general and that not only will old people be euthanized but those with disabilities as well (thanks Ms. Palin).


When I asked her where she got her information, she mentioned she always watches Hannity and Glen Beck. I suggested she might want to check out some other information sources and maybe find out what the other side has to say. Heck, why not watch the debates on C-SPAN and listen for herself from the source.


She said, no way, all the others are lying, I'm not interested in what the other side has to say.


Very sad indeed.

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As I said, I have read the bill, and no, there are no "death panels". There is a provision for "end of life counselling" to be paid for every 5 years as a benefit under the plan. The counselling is in the form of "ya know, maybe you should think about an Advance Directive, or Healthcare Power of Attorney, so your loved ones know what your wishes are, and we can help explain all of your options." Having had surgery last year, and having a MIL in and out of hospital several times a year, this is no different that what's done now...except it will allow providers to bill for it as a separate service. Not sure how that benefits anyone, except the providers.


As to rationing health care, that is a separate issue, which is not addressed in the bill. But that's also being done now. I also frequent an Elder Care forum, and the horror stories there will make your skin crawl. Like convincing a 96 year old woman to go to the Doc for a mammogram and Pap test....now the results of the test will not change the treatment plan or the outcome either way...but they can bill Medicare/Medicaid and milk the system. Many seniors gladly bounce from doctor to doctor, scheduling several appointments per week, running us caregivers ragged, because it's a way to get out of the house (or nursing facility) and get attention. And the stupid GOVERNMENT pays for it. Is it medically necessary? I agree with those who say it depends on the age. Does an 80 year old man need a PSA test every year? What for? Just so the medical community can document that "we did all we could for you."


That needs to be stopped. It's things like this that have me convinced that the Govt needs to stay out of the healthcare business...Medicare/Medicaid is a horror story frought with waste, fraud and abuse. If they get that system under control, then they can worry about the speck in MY eye.


As a Reagan Conservative and budding Libertarian, I do think that the media hype is over the top...on both sides. People have a responsibility to read and think for themselves before going to a rally and yelling like fools...regardless of which side they are on. UNfortunately, the majority of the voting public is incapable of doing that.


There. "Fair and balanced".

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This is what concerns me


Page 965, HR 3200






(a) IN GENERAL.There is established the Center for Quality Improvement (referred to in this part as the Center), to be headed by the Director.


(1) IN GENERAL.The Director shall prioritize areas for the identification, development, evaluation, and implementation of best practices (including innovative methodologies and strategies) for quality improvement activities in the delivery of health care services (in this section referred to as best practices).


Now, the question is, what does "BEST PRACTICES" mean? What does it mean now and what will it mean in the future.


Saying "best practices" will lead to Death Panels may be over the top, but is there a limit to the power they will have? What we think of best practices today could morph tomorrow?


We as a Country did this once when we had a large government document in front of the nation. Instead of arguing over the points and what means what, why not attach a Patients BIll of Rights to the legislation, such as the Freedom to choose the physician who treats us and so on.


I could be happy with that.




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The biggest problem I think most have with the health care issue is the way the whole process has been handled. We are being told it HAS to be passed now, in just a few weeks, that we MUST support it, even though no one is sure what is in it, or what will be in the final bill! This could be the opening of Pandora's Box, and the Dems want a drag race to get there. What's up with the frantic pace? It makes me think they are afraid we will have time to read it and see how bad it really is.


I suggest slowing the process down, and trying to make changes incrementally. Clean up the fraud in Medicair/Medicaid. If you are going to start forcing those who can afford insurance to buy it, make that step two. Then let's see how many citizens are actually without insurance. Then maybe expand Medicair/Medicaid. Do that before opening Pandora's Box that becomes the biggest boondoggle in the history of this country.


Obama is on record as saying he prefers single-payer (yes, it was back in 2003, but it is on the record). We have reasons to be suspicious.

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I was reading an account of an Town Hall meeting in Pennsylvania last night with Arlen Specter. It got raucous as did a meeting in Missouri. The two senators later expressed something that is the heart of it all. There is a lot of emotion and bitterness towards the federal Government right now. Perhaps its time to step back and assess the reason for the emotions and it may not be the Health Care Bill, its just the frenic pace the Government seems to be running at. We have to pass the Bail out bill by friday or the world as we know it will collapse, yet a huge precentage of the funds havent been spent.


Before and during the Iraq war there were many anti-war demonstrations. President Bush commented they were Americans expressing their right to Free Speech and Freedom of Assembly. People who demonstrate against the Health Care Legislaton are astro turf and pawns of the Insurance Companies.

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Sure, we won't have Death Panels (sorry, Gern), at least not by that name.


Obama Says Grandmothers Hip Replacement Raises Cost




April 29 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama said his grandmothers hip-replacement surgery during the final weeks of her life made him wonder whether expensive procedures for the terminally ill reflect a sustainable model for health care.


Obama said you just get into some very difficult moral issues when considering whether to give my grandmother, or everybody elses aging grandparents or parents, a hip replacement when theyre terminally ill.


Thats where I think you just get into some very difficult moral issues, he said in the April 14 interview. The chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health- care bill out here.


Me, I don't want Obama or any of his government minions deciding "moral issues" for me and my family. Do I have a reason to be worried about his health care overhaul? You betcha!

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Why am I suspicious? For one, I work for the federal govt and see first hand how regulations and policy are made. Kinda like making sausage. Tom Daschle is one of BHO's top advisors on this and his plan called for a "quality panel" similar to what they have in Britain. Expensive treatment modalities are subjected to a cost-benefit analysis. For example, my MIL receives an IVIG treatment to the tune of $7 grand a month, paid for by the taxpayer (Medicare). Is it improving her quality of life? WHo knows? She's still alive with severe COPD, but can't do much. Will it continue to be approved under Obamacare? Who knows? (I know what I would decide.)

Another example...my 88 year old Uncle with congestive heart failure and kidney failure was just buried. With two brand new knees that had just been replaced...for the THIRD time. Sorry, folks, but with limited resources, when do we say "enough"?


Should the taxpayer be asked to fork over money so that someone can be kept alive artificially with no quality of life? (Hence the counselling). The counselling is just a tactic to get people to agree ahead of time to the rationing that will inevitably take place because there simply won't be enough health care available to give everyone what they want.


But again, this is nothing new. A few years back, the GOV decided that performing mammograms on women under age 40 was not productive enough to justify the cost. Do women under 40 get breast cancer? Sure. But not enough that we should pay to screen them all. That's not comforting if you are a 28 year old who is diagnosed too late.


Just like the upcoming Swine Flu shot campaign. Wait till all the seniors realize that they are at the bottom of the priority list. (The top of the list is school kids, pregnant women, and healthcare providers). That's healthcare rationing and it's already coming to a neighborhood near you.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

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