DOES OUR CONCEPT OF MANILINESS MATTER?

[Trevorum 24]

Count me in as part of the "ilk".

[Hiromi 9]

LisaBob,

 

I never argued that BSA is monolithic. Who has? Bob White? Old Grey Eagle? Beava?

 

No- I can't think of anybody I have read on this forum.

 

I think the myth of the monolith is problematic if it is actually believed in. I think we all pretend that we are part of the same movement because there is a fear of the reality that we are all actually just faking something that shouldn't be faked.

 

We shouldn't be afraid. We should just all be more creative and more assertive and more loyal to our core values. And if that loyalty leads us down different paths- so be it. I think America can handle a plurality of different scouting movements. I think the problem is that BSA is too darned monopolistic. That is kind of un-American in and of itself. (And dont start descending on this post with all the Venture/Crew and CO stuff making BSA as diverse as the wind driven snow thats bull). . America can handle many scouting movements, just like America can handle a great deal of balkanization. But we should drop the pretenses and build scouting corps that get people excited about scouting again be they gay, communists, godless, or whatever. Let them just do it the way they want to do it and stop pretending that we can all do scouting together.

 

Pappy

(This message has been edited by Pappy)

[Lisabob 13]

Well Pappy if you want a plurality of scouting movements then I recommend you contact your member of Congress about revoking the BSA's exclusivity charter, which from what I understand, is a major reason that there's a near monopoly in the first place. There are plenty of others who will probably agree with you, though probably for different reasons.

 

As for the rest of it, nope I don't find it to be "faking" to suppose that most of us share some core beliefs even when we disagree on surface matters (ie, try the Scout Law and the Mission statement of the BSA - I'd say most scouters really do buy into those core beliefs). As for differing political and world views, well hey that's life. I suppose I view this from a sort of sociological or maybe it is anthropological (?) perspective. It is fascinating to me to try to understand how and why others develop their world views, and the extent to which people can articulate those views. I don't particularly care about making converts but I do love to talk about this stuff. That's probably why I count among my friends people from a pretty wide range of viewpoints, and also perhaps why I don't find most other views to be threatening or dangerous to my own understanding of life, the universe, and everything. I know that drives some people crazy though. Oh well.

[packsaddle 753]

Hey, I'm with you on that monopoly thing. And Lisabob, I'd be glad to listen to ANY president as long as he or she wasn't nicknamed, 'Dubya'. The speech might even employ correct grammar.

 

But Pappy, I am feeling a bit left out here. How come you worry about Lisa's tenure and not mine. I may be just a scientist but we're capable of ruffling feathers too. And, hey, it's even worse for me because I don't fit any of the neat little labels being thrown around, although like Trevorum, I'm probably part of the 'ilk' too.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Since umarried sex would seem to be against Scoutings values, what is wrong with considering Boy Scouts to be asexual? With a fairly large troop, (50 to 95 members) over the past 10 years I am sure we have had "gay" boy scouts. I don't know who they were, but the odds are they were there or are there now. I really don't care. Discussions of sexuality have no place around the campfire. If a scout comes to an adult alone and has questions, well that is another matter and one that has all sorts of concerns and I have to beleive the adult approached will handle it well. How do you train for those questions? I have no idea. I know with the Crew we have coed campouts, things seem to be ok, I guess since there havent been an explosion of pregnant female Crew members, things are going well. Does that mean there arent antedotal stories of pregnant female Crew members or leaders? Well, I cant say that, but no more than stories of Scoutmasters who molested their charges. I know we pretty much get the behavior from youth we expect. I think if the BSA went with local option, saying any leader the CO approves as a leader is fine AS LONG AS the CO is on the hook for any liability that the leader may incur, we may see a tad more interested CO's.

[Lisabob 13]

Well three's a crowd and now I think we need a name. Ilkniks? Ilklings? Trev, Pack, other members of the "ilk," what do you propose?

[scoutmomma 10]

I thought it was four's a crowd...I just read "ilklings" as "inklings." How about that?

[packsaddle 753]

Oooooooo, this is fun....ilkskies, ilkshkas...how about a take off from the Legend of Sleeping Hollow, ilkabods? Ilkthyologists?

 

Edited part; heh, heh, I just mispelled a word that doesn't exist yet.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[OldGreyEagle 5]

I think the Most Estemmed Royal Benevolent and Protective Order of Ilks of the United States of America would be a good start

[packsaddle 753]

drat! double post(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[packsaddle 753]

OGE, MERBPOIUSA doesn't exactly roll off the lips, although I bet Jim Carey could do it.

[GernBlansten 10]

I favor ilkinistas. Has that rebel ring to it.

[Trevorum 24]

I prefer the classically simple Ilkish. Definitely not Ilkans, or (god forbid) Ilkians.

[DanKroh 11]

If we are an Order of Ilks, does that mean we get to wear funny hats? Wouldn't be a lodge without funny hats....

 

Pappy, my momma always said, "Homophobic is as homophobic does". Well, ok, she didn't, but anyone who uses a "slippery slope" argument to use fear of homosexuality being accepted in society as the beginning of the downfall of civilized values (and of course, let's not forget the orgy-filled scout outings) is certainly displaying the qualities of homophobia.

 

Pack, the lack of concern for your tenture seems to be related to the presence of a Y chromosome in your genome.

 

I'm also intrigued to find out that evidently the opposite of a republican is a communist ("gay or straight, believers or atheist, republicans or communists").

[Hiromi 9]

Yeh Dan,

 

You guys all sound pretty gay to me, but I won't assume you are homos. And if you were, I wouldnt think any less of you. But I just think that there is little practical difference between gay boys camping together and hetero boys and girls camping together.

 

I wouldn't let my sons go camping with girls- because I have sense enough to understand that this is an opportunity for sex. Sam goes with a unit that openly welcomes gay scouting.

 

It is just common sense. If you want to keep the sex act away from scouting (And I think we should)- do your best to curb the opportunity and the temptation.

 

I am opposed to coed as much as I am opposed to homosexual scouting because kids shouldnt be having sex and shouldnt be put in situations that make it too easy to do it.

 

I am not afraid of gays. But I think it is the Gay argument that is insinuating itself into scouting- not scouting insinuating itself into gay-culture.

 

Pappy