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Gold Winger

Trademarks

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Well, I gotta admit that this is news to me and sad news as well.

 

"Official Licensees are contractually bound to and regularly monitored by the BSA to ensure that they adhere to product quality standards, maintain levels of insurance necessary to protect the end user in the case of product failure, and abide by a code of conduct that compels them, among other things, to provide acceptable working conditions for those producing products bearing BSA trademarks."

 

I do have laugh about this. Go to the Scout shop, the Switch back pants are being made in China, as are mugs, tents, etc.. I'm sure that BSA has given the Chinese strict instructions about working conditions and pay. And we do need to make sure that our T-shirt printer has enough insurance in case one of the shirts explodes.

 

This is about squeezing every dime out of the membership that they can. Instead of getting your shirts locally produced for $10 each, you'll have to get them from BSA for $12 each. Even if it is $10 each, you won't be able to get YOUR design, I'm sure that it will be like Philmont, only a few designs each and you have to live with it.

 

Maybe we should withhold payment from BSA or just carry on like we have been and let BSA sue us. :-)

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Or maybe. The BSA saw that many people (not in scouting) where using their logos so they put a stop to it. And they saw all of the troops that think the BSA sucks doing bad things with the logos they also put a stop to that or a least slowed it down.

 

Happy Scouting

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"Maybe we should withhold payment from BSA or just carry on like we have been and let BSA sue us. :-) "

 

For the life of me I will never understand why some people involved in Scouting seem to hate Scouting so much.

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Who hates Scouting?

 

" The BSA saw that many people (not in scouting) where using their logos so they put a stop to it."

 

Since the old rules about the logos prohibited people outside of Scouting from using the logo, that was already covered.

 

It's about money. Beyonce and Brittany are still going to wear Cub Scout shirts. The only difference is that now troops will be expected to pay BSA for their troop t-shirts.

 

If it wasn't about money, it would have been simple enough to clarify the language and say that units could could continue to use the logos to have locally made shirts, shorts and neckerchiefs but exclude sleeping bags, packs and pocket knives.

 

Money, money, money, moneeeeey.

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I was very disappointed when this new policy came out also. We needed around 160 shirts for NYLT, the price of the shirts more than doubled. We removed all BSA logos and trademarks off the shirts, so we would not have to increase the price that the staff and participants had to pay for shirts. After all was said and done, it was a non issue.

 

Gold Winger

You ask Who Hates Scouting. Reading your posts it sure seems like all you have are issues with the BSA. The BSA is scouting, if all you do is post about how bad the BSA is, what am I to think that you think about scouting?

There are things I do not like in scouting, but they are so small and trivial in the overall scheme of things, why make a mountain out of a mole hill?

 

Happy Scouting

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" The BSA is scouting,"

 

That's like saying the Pope is Christianity. BSA just happens to be a Scouting organization, one that is money grubbing and petty. However, BSA is not Scouting.

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Ok, let me rephrase FScouters comment:

 

For the life of me I will never understand why some people involved in the BSA seem to hate BSA so much.

 

A long time ago I was a Dept manager in a hospital. There were some people in the Dept that just knew that the Dept was the worst run in the hospital and that the hospital was the worst run hopital in the world. It also should be noted that these people had never worked anywhere else. At one point I had a confrontation with an employee who said I was an idiot just like the three previous managers were all idiots and she couldnt beleive the hospital kept hiring such idiots. I commented that if she thought her last four managers were idiots, the common element was her and perhaps it wasnt the four managers who had faults. She didnt care for that response much. Some people just have to beleive that they are in the worst situation possible, that way when they fail, they can blame the situation, not themselves. "I am sure I could be a movie star if I could just get out of this place" Oddly enough these people never quit as they loved the misery they were in. People who had worked in other hospitals didnt have near the same attitude as those who only knew one place.

 

When one hears such comments as the BSA only does things to CYA, or for money, or that the BSA program isnt real scouting and a bastardisation of B-P's program it does make you wonder why such comementers stay members of the BSA. Either the comments they make are just pique of the moment, not really as serious as they seem to look, or the people who make them love misery and stay within the BSA becaue they seek to be miserable. I think its the former, that people see something, denounce it and move on and when the comments are read they are read with far deeper and darker meanings than the original poster had. The alternative is that they love to be miserable and I dont really think that is true, is it?

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

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For the life of me I will never understand why some people involved in the BSA seem to hate BSA so much.

 

Odd discussion for a trademark thread, eh?

 

I think this is an unfair comment, or at least a red pickled herring :).

 

I'm an American, but I'm pretty pointed in my criticism of congress and both of da last two presidents, eh? That doesn't mean I hate America or want to leave. Just means I believe in stayin' Mentally Awake, and bein' honest in criticism, and wantin' to do my part to spread ideas around to others that may change the way they vote or do things so that they get just a bit better.

 

Or sometimes, just to vent. Especially when it comes to Congress, eh? :)

 

Beavah

 

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What if one loves B-P's ideas, but thinks BSA has got it wrong? My understanding as an outsider is that it's legally very difficult for anyone to initiate something called Scouts in the USA without coming under the umbrella of the BSA.

 

While I'm sure the vast majority of BSA administrators have all the right intentions, it has to be valid for others to occasionally question their collective current interpretation of B-P's philosophies.

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If someone thinks that BSA has got it wrong they should either

 

Try to change the BSA in an orderly manner rather than disobeying the rules.

OR

Quit.

 

Bevah

That is unfair and unkind to say the BSA in like Congress. :)

 

So it is okay to whine and complain about the BSA whenever someone posts here, but it is not okay to defend the BSA? I find that rather odd.

I even gave a "work around" that would not cost money money money, and yet it is still an issue.

 

If one would go back and read some of my old posts I am sad to say that you will see that I was a lot like other posters here that only complained and whined about the BSA. But after being involved with it a few more years, I learned that the good more than out weighs the bad.

And the bad is really not that bad.

 

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dan said:

 

" If someone thinks that BSA has got it wrong they should either

 

Try to change the BSA in an orderly manner....."

 

Orderly manner is good.

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"Ok, let me rephrase FScouters comment"

 

Two moderators polishing each other's ad hominem attacks: How special!

 

"it does make you wonder why such comementers stay members of the BSA."

 

This "the BSA is Scouting" Wood Badge Logic is a result of the government picking for the winner of a Scouting monopoly an association that hands out Eagle Badges to indoor boys who have never walked into the woods with a backpack. The BSA defends this Scouting-lite arrangement with considerable legal firepower.

 

One aspect of the BSA's newly awakened vigor might be related to the current trademark litigation over the the word "Scout." The BSA's "cease and desist" form letters sent to alternative Scouting associations now include a claim of exclusive rights to the generic fleur de lis!

 

So if they lose the exclusive right to "Scouting" they will no doubt continue to claim rights to other non-proprietary words and symbols common to Scouting around the world.

 

Kudu

 

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Wow.

Is that really what is going on over there?

We have an old saying "When three Germans are standing together they are going to establish a club." With the umpteen scouting groups, clubs, associations, federations and what have you in this country, it sounds like the old saying is right.

 

We have three or four really large scouting organisations which work together quite well, but who are independent as to their program, uniforms, etc.

 

I must say that a true monopoly in scouting and everything related to it can't be good for a country. Diversity prevents a monoculture.

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We need to wonder if BSA's diligence in protecting their trademarks should really extend to the members of BSA.

 

Unit have always been allowed to use BSA logos, until now. Is there really an issue with quality and insurance? I seriously doubt it. Even in my twisted mind, I cannot concieve of a scenario in which a troop orders crappy t-shirts from "Jim's Shirt Shop" and then says, "Dang that BSA, their shirts are so crappy." No, they'd just find a new shirt supplier. I really doubt if insurance is an issue either. Perhaps if a scout fell off of a cliff and was caught on a tree branch that hooked his shirt collar and then the shirt ripped and he plummeted to his death. This being America the named defendants would include BSA, the Scoutmaster, Hanes, and the shirt shop.

 

Yep, it's all about that exta buck or two that they can garner from each shirt.

 

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"Yep, it's all about that exta buck or two that they can garner from each shirt."

 

It sure sounds like that.

If a troop would like to have their own individual t-shirt made up, then this effort of teambuilding and esprit de corps should be supported, not suppressed.

After all, we are not talking about climbing equipment, parachutes or other material which would require rigorous safety testing and such.

 

But if this is such a prob, I'd simply have the shirts made up without a BSA logo.

 

best regards,

Volker

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