Time bomb in new city budget? [Philly votes to boot Scouts]

[fgoodwin 23]

Time bomb in new city budget? [Philly votes to boot Scouts]

 

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/7780166.html

 

Posted on Fri, Jun. 01, 2007

By MARK McDONALD

mcdonam@phillynews.com 215-854-2646

 

In other business, Council cleared the way for the city to terminate a lease the city has had with the Cradle of Liberty Council of the Boy Scouts since 1928 for the half-acre of land at 22nd and Spring streets where the Boy Scouts built their regional headquarters building.

 

At issue is the national Boy Scouts policy of discrimination against homosexuals and the Street administration's response that the city should not subsidize an entity that engages in discrimination.

 

City Solicitor Romulo Diaz said yesterday the city is not pushing the Boy Scouts to leave, preferring them to reject the discriminatory policy or start paying rent.

 

"The ball is in the [boy Scout] council's court," he said.

 

Jeff Jubelirer, a spokesman for the local Boy Scouts organization, said the Scouts felt "blindsided" by Council's action. He made the same comment last July when the administration and the Fairmount Park Commission gave notice that the local Scouts faced lease termination.

 

Yesterday, Jubelirer said the city has yet to tell the Cradle of Liberty Council what fair-market-value rent would be.

 

Council's action came on a resolution introduced by Clarke, who said he opposes the fair-market-value rent alternative.

 

"You should not be able to stay in a publicly funded facility without signing nondiscriminatory language regardless of whether you pay rent," he said.

[fgoodwin 23]

Council votes to end city lease with Boy Scouts

 

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/pa/20070601_

Council_votes_to_end_Boy_Scouts_lease_The_group_must_

pledge_not_to_discriminate_against_gays_or_else_pay_

market_rent_to_the_city_.html

http://tinyurl.com/3awxrq

 

 

(Sorry guys, I busted up this link in hopes that it would shrink the page so that viewers could read it without having to scroll over and back constantly. Instead, if you want to go to the link, you'll need to copy and paste it into your browser) hops

 

 

Posted on Fri, Jun. 01, 2007

By Joseph A. Slobodzian

Inquirer Staff Writer

 

The long-simmering dispute over whether the Boy Scouts of America's Cradle of Liberty Council must publicly affirm it will not discriminate against openly gay people - or pay fair-market rent for the city-owned Logan Square land on which their landmark headquarters is located - boiled over anew yesterday as City Council authorized the city to end the lease.

 

The resolution was introduced unexpectedly by Councilman Darrell L. Clarke and passed, 16-1, with no debate and with Council Minority Leader Brian J. O'Neill voting no.

 

Both Clarke, a Center City Democrat whose district includes the building at 22d and Winter Streets, and City Solicitor Romulo L. Diaz Jr. said they hoped the resolution would spur talks to resolve the dispute so Cradle of Liberty Council could continue to use at nominal rent the Beaux Arts building it has been in since 1928.

 

"My hope is that the resolution will give a little more leverage to the city and that [the parties] can come up with some kind of compromise," Clarke said. "Honestly, no one wants to see them out of there."

 

Diaz said the Council vote was the last step required to end the lease under the 1928 ordinance that leased the land to the scouts "in perpetuity."

 

Diaz said the scouts had to have a year's notice and the administration's recommendation had to be ratified by the Fairmount Park Commission and City Council.

 

"The year's-notice clock is ticking," Diaz said.

 

Jeff Jubelirer, a spokesman for Cradle of Liberty Council, said scout officials were disappointed at the council vote and that they were not told in advance.

 

"This is the way it's been done all along," Jubelirer said. "We feel we haven't been dealt with fairly."

 

Jubelirer said he did not know how scout officials would react and that any decision would likely involve leadership of the scout's National Council.

 

"We walk a fine line between what National wants and what we want to do," Jubelirer said. Cradle of Liberty Council has about 64,000 members in Philadelphia and parts of Delaware and Montgomery Counties.

 

"The real victims here are the 40,000 kids in Philadelphia who potentially could lose after-school programs at a time when Philadelphia's murder rate is soaring," Jubelirer said.

 

Equality Advocates Pennsylvania, which promotes legal equality for sexual minorities and pressed the city on the scouts' lease, yesterday praised the Council vote.

 

"We recognize the value of the Boy Scouts programs to some young people. They, however, should not be able to use taxpayers' dollars to discriminate against others," said executive director Stacey Sobel.

 

The dispute is not unique to Philadelphia.

 

For the last decade, the scouts have struggled to retain their identity and values as a private organization. But though private, the scouts have historically also enjoyed a special relationship with many local governments, municipalities that today must obey court rulings that bar taxpayer support of any group that discriminates.

 

Scouts require an oath of duty to God and the group's rules prohibit participation by any person who is openly gay.

 

In 2000, the Supreme Court ruled that as a private group, scouts have a First Amendment right to bar gays from membership.

 

But what seemed like a legal victory soon soured as local officials began reexamining often decades-old relationships with scout councils.

 

In October, the Supreme Court dealt another blow, refusing to review a California Supreme Court ruling affirming the City of Berkeley's decision to revoke free marina use for a Sea Scouts group because they discriminate against atheists and gays.

 

Philadelphia's dispute dates to 2003, when Cradle of Liberty Council adopted a nondiscrimination policy but was then ordered to revoke it by the National Council, which said local councils had no right to deviate from national charter and rules.

 

The situation was compounded that spring when the Cradle of Liberty Council ousted an 18-year-old scout, who publicly announced he was gay at a national scouting convention being held in Philadelphia.

 

 

--

Contact staff writer Joseph A. Slobodzian at 215-854-2985 or jslobodzian@phillynews.com

 

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Of course the editing done here seems to have screwed up some of the formatting and for that I apologize. hops (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Trevorum 24]

(sigh) Another council pays the piper.

[BadenP 93]

I agree it is another sad day for scouting. I do not think however that any council should be beholding to any city for the use of public property, it looks like the council had pretty poor legal advice before they built their offices.

 

Merlyn, I bet you're ecstatic with the news!

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

This is old news, the city has been dragging its feet since 2003, and they're still thinking something can be "worked out" between a city policy that prohibits public subsidies to discriminatory organizations like the BSA, and the BSA insisting that all councils practice such discrimination.

 

And the BSA didn't build the building, they've been leasing it for peanuts since 1928.

[Beavah 205]

And the BSA didn't build the building, they've been leasing it for peanuts since 1928.

 

I expect they've also been maintainin' and renovatin' it, eh? That's not "peanuts."

 

That's an interestin' question, eh? I wonder if the City of Philadelphia is ready to purchase the undepreciated building capital assets from the BSA if they force 'em to move. Seems to have been an issue of negotiation (see below).

 

And at least some news accounts do support da notion that they built the building:

 

Home

Council Boots Boy Scouts

By: Jim McCaffrey, The Bulletin

06/01/2007

 

Philadelphia - It was almost 80 years ago, December 1928 to be exact, the City of Philadelphia gave the Cradle of Liberty Council of the Boy Scouts permission to build a headquarters on city-owned property at 22nd and Spring Streets in Fairmount Park.

 

The Scouts built their headquarters at their own expense and, complying with the terms of the agreement, immediately turned over the property to the city. In return they remained housed in their building rent free - until Thursday.

 

City Council Thursday evicted the Boy Scouts from their headquarters giving them until July 20 to find a new home. The Scouts believe they were ambushed by Council's decision as they were given no warning the resolution was going to be presented Thursday.

 

The city is evicting the scouts at least in part on grounds the national organization discriminates against homosexuals.

 

The council resolution, introduced by Councilman Darrell Clarke and passed by a vote of 16-1 Thursday, claims the national Boy Scouts organization "has a policy of discrimination based on sexual orientation ... and has required the local Boy Scouts to implement its discriminatory policy by excluding participation on the basis of sexual orientation."

 

It continues, "The local Boy Scouts unfortunately has implemented that discriminatory policy and publicly has declared its intention to continue doing so."

 

The eviction resolution points out the city is bound by non-discrimination provisions in its Home Rule Charter and its Fair Practices ordinance.

 

It asserts, "The Boy Scouts' policy and conduct is directly contrary to the principles of equal access and opportunity enshrined in Philadelphia law."

 

The city, it says, must ensure city assets are made available to all citizens.

 

"The city's ongoing subsidy of a discriminatory organization through the allowance of free use of a building is directly contrary to the city's policy and practice of refusing to support discrimination," the resolution complained.

 

There is one possibility the Boy Scouts' headquarters can be saved. They can continue to use their building if they agree to pay market value rent.

 

The Fairmount Park Commission set the eviction clock ticking last summer when it voted to evict the Scouts from the building that sits on parkland.

 

Councilman Brian O'Neill was the single vote in council against the eviction.

 

"This was too big an issue to have no hearing on," he said after the vote. "The Boy Scouts were negotiating in good faith. They were negotiating to be paid for the improvements they made to the building so they could start again somewhere else.

 

"The local chapter was opposed to the national chapter's discrimination policy. I hate to see a group that agrees with us to be pushed out."

 

Lobbyist and media consultant Jeff Jubelirer spoke on behalf of the Cradle of Liberty Council.

 

"We had no idea this was coming today," he huffed saying they learned of the resolution from a lobbyist who was in council chambers when the resolution was introduced. "When the Fairmount Park commission voted to evict us [last July] we didn't get invited to the meeting. There's been a pattern of the city not giving us any information and doing things at the eleventh hour behind our backs. We were blindsided."

 

Jubelirer maintained the Scouts met with Councilman Clarke and City Solicitor Romy Diaz as recently as March to discuss the eviction issue.

 

"We were hoping to come up with a win-win situation," Jubelirer claimed. "There was no indication this would happen. This could cut off 40,000 youths from after school programming in a time when there is a rising murder rate among city youth."

 

He conceded there were strong efforts from the lesbian and gay communities to push the eviction.

 

"They have every right to," he conceded, but maintained the Cradle of Liberty Council does not discriminate.

The Scouts are investigating legal options to fight the eviction, he said.

 

"In the long run we want to work something out," Jubelirer maintained. "We asked what full market rent would be but they have not gotten back to us with an answer. "

 

Mark Segal, publisher of the Philadelphia Gay News, issued an Internet bulletin to subscribers after the resolution passed recounting the eviction story and noting the legislation "came about [in part] because of the Boy Scouts discriminatory policies."

 

 

 

 

[Gonzo1 10]

So if I got this right, the Cradle of Liberty council could have the rent FREE (or peanuts) in perpetuity or until Philadelphia needs some cash.

 

Ya gotta follow the money, so much for Brotherly Love.

 

 

 

[scottteng 11]

That is why most councils are smart enough to own their land and headquarters usually by donation then when things get tight and land prices have skyrocketed they sell for all the market will bear. Think of the appreciation since 1928!

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Beavah writes:

I expect they've also been maintainin' and renovatin' it, eh? That's not "peanuts."

 

Compared to fair market value, it sure is.

 

And at least some news accounts do support da notion that they built the building

 

I think you're right; most news accounts just called it the city's building, but the page at

http://www.parkwaycouncilfoundation.org/historyParkway.html

says the Boy Scouts "opened their building" in 1930.

 

Gonzo1 writes:

So if I got this right, the Cradle of Liberty council could have the rent FREE (or peanuts) in perpetuity or until Philadelphia needs some cash.

 

The lease has always had a 1-year notice to end the lease, but the city is doing this because there are a lot of people complaining about Philadelphia subsidizing a discriminatory organization. It's the discrimination that's forcing this. The C of L council doesn't even support the BSA's discrimination, but the national BSA requires them to discriminate.

[Hunt 11]

Is this just an office building? If so, this is just about money and not about facilities used by Scouts, as in some of the other cases. Of course, in order to determine if this is fair, one would want to know what other groups are occupying city land rent-free. But if there's no unequal treatment, it seems to me that the city would be within its rights to simply say that as of the termination of the current lease, they want rent--with no other reason than they'd like to have the money.

Perhaps they'll work out a deal in which the scouts will pay market rate for what the land would be if unimproved. It does seem unfair to me to make the scouts pay rent for a building they built and improved.

[Gonzo1 10]

Merlyn,

I hope the Cradle of Libery Council finds an angel (benefactor) out there and they move to another office building. It's just a building, but I also hope that the city council members who voted against the Boy Scouts get voted out of office.

 

It doesn't matter if the council agrees with the rule or policy, that's just the way it is.

 

I haven't had the opportunity to read the lease, if there is a one-year notice to terminate clause, then one year of notice should be provided, not a day less.

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Gonzo1 writes:

It doesn't matter if the council agrees with the rule or policy, that's just the way it is.

 

Same with the Boy Scouts' lease; it goes against the city's Home Rule Charter and Fair Practices Ordinance. The city can't subsidize a discriminatory organization.

 

I haven't had the opportunity to read the lease, if there is a one-year notice to terminate clause, then one year of notice should be provided, not a day less.

 

A "notice of ejectment" was sent by City Solicitor Diaz on July 20, 2006.

[evmori 11]

So if I got this right, the Cradle of Liberty council could have the rent FREE (or peanuts) in perpetuity or until Philadelphia needs some cash.

 

Ya gotta follow the money, so much for Brotherly Love.

 

Right on the money, Gonzo1!

 

The city probably wants the building for another tenant that will pay overpriced rent.

 

And since the lease has a 1 year terminate clause, why now? I don't buy the "people complaining" argument. We should keep an eye on who moves in.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Beavah 205]

Same with the Boy Scouts' lease; it goes against the city's Home Rule Charter and Fair Practices Ordinance. The city can't subsidize a discriminatory organization.

 

Yah, this is an interestin' argument, eh?

 

So a government agency, the City of Philadelphia, grants an entitlement to a person or organization (perpetual free rent) in exchange for compensation (a free building and perpetual maintenance/renovation costs). How ethical is it to change the terms of the entitlement by subsequent legislation? Particularly when that subsequent legislation targets particular groups for engaging in constitutionally protected activity?

 

We should think about this in terms of other government entitlements. Can the Federal Government, by legislation, eliminate the Social Security entitlement to a person who they feel discriminates (even though that entitlement is also "in perpetuity" in exchange for prior compensation)?

 

What say you, Merlyn?

 

 

[GernBlansten 10]

We should think about this in terms of other government entitlements. Can the Federal Government, by legislation, eliminate the Social Security entitlement to a person who they feel discriminates (even though that entitlement is also "in perpetuity" in exchange for prior compensation)?

Yes, they can, and they do. In the 70s and early 80s, my father was disabled and on SS. As a minor, I got SS benefits also. When I turned 18, I continued to get SS benefits if I was a student. It wasn't much, but it paid for food and books. Ronald Reagen changed the rules of eligibility. In my second year in college, I no longer received the SS benefit. (This message has been edited by GernBlansten)