CS Pack Leaders - Major politics - help!

[Bob White]

There I several points I would offer comment on.

 

I doubled checked, and there is nothing in the Cubscout program that says Blue and Gold is a good time to have the cub rank advancement completed. It is not iin the training material, the leaders guide or the boy's handbook. The only advancement guide is that the Den Leader should work to make sure the scout advances by the end of eligibility period by age or grade, and there are exceptions for that as well.

 

The best time for the cub to advance is after he has completed all the requirements. The purpose of the Blue and Gold is to have a Birthday Party for Cub Scouting. If the scouts were ready to advance at the B&G that's fine but it should not be the program goal. The one exception is Webelos graduation and crossovers. By February most Webelos IIs are 18 months along and have completed Arrow of Light.

 

It is never a good idea to have a Unit Commissioner (which is a District position not a Council one) commission a unit they or their spouse leads. It's impossible to be objective when you have ties that close.

 

I highly recommend that families looking to join be directed to the Cubmaster. It is the Cubmaster's responsibility to make sure the youth is eligible, sign the application and introduce them to a Den. Your problem could have been headed off way in advance by the cubmaster.

 

Who the Tiger Den Leader is shouldn't matter, since the Adult Partner must be with his or her Tiger at all times. The role of the Tiger Den Leader is largely to coordinate the efforts of the Adult Partners.

 

What is the UC doing with popcorn money? This is a committee problem that as a Den leader I wouldn't get involved in.

 

As far as the Tiger in the Wolf Den If I was not comfortable having him in the Den (and I wouldn't be) I would let the Cubmaster know that the required Adult Partner would have to be at every den meeting and work with the scout on tiger requirements whenever the den worked on Wolf requirements or they would need to make other leadership arrangements for the den. The tiger could participate in openings closing and appropriate games but other than that would need to do age appropriate activities with the Adult partner.

 

As a den leader focus on the content of the den meetings and leave the rest of the pack administrative doings to others. Your only concern should be to have fun with the kids in your den and help them complete their rank before the next program year starts.

 

Hope this helps clarify a few things,

Bob White

 

[flyingember]

as seen in other threads here the pack and troop doesn't really control the money or org. its all the charter org since the pack isn't a seperate entity at all. find out when they have a meeting and get on their schedule and present your concerns to them. in my experience, most any group thats willing to support cub scouts will not be happy to hear that the adults are pushing them away with their actions. the charter org has all the power they need.

[Eagledad]

Hi LA

Looking at this, and it's a bit confusing, I think the issue is you and your CM stepped on the toes of the CC and UC. Ignoring all the other facts you threw in, the real problem is the Tiger in the Bear den. Since you had no authority to allow the decision, this is really a CM situation. Now, your CC wants to take this to Council, I would let her. I would also encourage the CM to insist that the COH, District Commissioner, and District Chairman attend. The CC will present the facts and CM needs to defend the decision. No worrys there because the reason is families don't trust these adults. And now is the time to make sure this fact comes out. Once that is done, then it's time to ask the COH, District Chairman and Distrit Commish what else could they have done?

 

The CC has solved your problem provided you make sure she does call the meeting. If done properly, everything will come out in this meeting and District will have to suggest changes. You just have to make sure the meeting with the Council (DE?) is set up.

 

It sounds like what you have are a couple of busy bodies with no life except scouting. Good intentions, but can lead to to much selfserving desire to be important. You knock their crown around a little and they are lashing out. If this is the case, you need to look at them with compassion, not anger. They have set thenselves up for a big fall, and they will hurt.

 

How can a program with intentions that are so good and simple get so complicated and painful?

 

Good Luck

 

Barry

[LALeader]

Boy you nailed them right. The Cubmaster went to council today and explained the situation. They recommended that it be resolved on a pack level. We are leaving them be. It is the best situation for the boys and the families. Next year the mom will put the boys in the separate dens - her main issue was avoiding this particular leader. (And just to clarify it is a tiger in a wolf den - the boys are 10 months apart in age.) They will only be together in the same den for a few months now. The issue was primarily not that the boys be together so the issue brought up earlier about will they expect scouts to bend the rules for them in the future - is not the point.

 

Another question - with new info learned about these particular leaders - if there is an active social service investigation regarding this husband/wife team and they are both registered leaders - is this our business / none of our business / a private family matter? Another leader in our pack brought this concern to our attention and we're not sure how to address it. The leaders in question believe it is a private family matter. I as a leader would like some assurance that the boys are protected. Two deep leadership would not be effective as they are both registered leaders in our pack.

 

And I completely agree that scouting is a blast without the adults that go around messing it up!

 

Thanks for the advice - it's SO appreciated! (And I'm off to Wood badge next weekend to learn more!)

 

[Eagledad]

I am not sure what your saying, but there are two very important points about dealing with adults; you have to make sure your intentions are honorable. That is so important because the internet doesn't allow us to look in your eyes. AND! you have to protect the kids. You have to protect my son.

 

Barry

[red feather]

What a can of worms!! Remember there is the right way, the wrong way, and the way it gets done. Do what is best for the boys, within the program, and try to stay under the radar.

 

May be simplistic, but I think you will understand.

 

Good luck!

 

yis

[sctmom]

About the two-deep leadership issue and not wanting those 2 adults left alone with the kids. Just don't let it happen. I know that when I was a kid my parents managed to keep me out of potential harm many times. There are ways to do it without being mean. Make sure there is always another adult with them to "help out".

 

In our pack we have few situations where there are only 2 adults around.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

I may not be the brightest bulb in the box so I need some help here. When you say other people dont trust these two, what do you mean? They steal? They physically hit, they sexually molest? Why are they not trusted and if they arent trusted, why are there people involved with them who have children, this inquiring mind wants to know

[Joni4TA]

LALeader, to answer your question:

""Another question - with new info learned about these particular leaders - if there is an active social service investigation regarding this husband/wife team and they are both registered leaders - is this our business / none of our business / a private family matter?""

 

Did you take Youth Protection Training? If so, this should not even be a question- you are to report it if it concerns ANY TYPE OF ABUSE-- review Youth Protection guidelines or ask a District Executive if you have any questions or concerns about this issue. You didn't really say what the issue was so I am clarifying only on a general ABUSE issue level. If YOU or another Pack/Den Leader have concerns you are to report it, it's not your place to figure out of you believe it or think it's true.

[ASM1]

Politics in Scouting? Your kidding? Our family has the Purple Heart of Scouting Politics. It is not for the faint of heart! Be strong young Jedi, it only gets worse. If you wish to fix it, or make it worse, get involved in District or Council. It works both ways. Find out who is who, but keep your eyes wide open because there will be a knife waiting for your back. Chances are, who you think is on the up and up, are really on the down and down.

 

And also be aware that no matter how motivated the scout is, if his parent do not participate and tow the line so to speak, you will have problems. But of course you will always have risk if you donate too much in volunteer activities that you may be noticed as one who wishes to rock the boat of the current "whos who". Can't do that.

 

When will you figure it all out? When you on your third Eagle Scout in your family. Then it all makes sence and you can't wait to get out of it. But you can't leave after your son is out of Scouting because now you are a part of the system and you love it. And now your goal is to make it better. Now we start in the next step.

You are now really involved in council and the knives are bigger and they penatrate deeper. But you still cannot leave. You love it so.

 

But rest assured, in the end your youth HAS learned the values of Scouting and he is now a leader. He/She is not aware of what we parents have had to deal with for their adventure. Until, of course, they enter the realm of Scouting as a parent themslves.

 

Welcome to Scouting!

 

ASM1