Boy Scouts' values never go out of style

[fgoodwin 23]

Boy Scouts' values never go out of style

 

http://www.masslive.com/metroeastplus/republican/index.ssf?/base/news-1/113809302726260.xml&coll=1

http://tinyurl.com/au8ya

 

Wednesday, January 25, 2006

 

SPRINGFIELD - Boy Scouts' values may seem old-fashioned in today's culture, but many would argue they are needed more than ever.

 

Scouting sets a goal of helping parents with their sons' development of strong values and healthy minds and bodies. Scouting helps build self-esteem and keeps youth positively involved in the community.

 

Can this make a meaningful difference in the lives of inner-city youth? Nathan Ramos and his mom, Wanda Miranda, say yes.

 

Ramos, 20, has been a Scout for nearly 10 years. Miranda, a single mother, enrolled him in Scouting on the advice of family friend Herb Colon, who was Scoutmaster for Troop 9 in Springfield's North End.

 

"I wanted Nathan to get the things a father gives a son that I couldn't do," Miranda says. At first Ramos didn't like it, but Miranda made him go.

 

"My mom was a single parent and saw my interest in outdoor stuff that I knew she didn't want to do, so she got me in Scouting," Ramos said with a laugh. "She had to push me at first but I grew to love it."

 

United Way, in partnership with the Boy Scouts, funds programs for at-risk youth in Springfield and Holyoke.

 

"Scouting provides a great way for young people, particularly inner-city boys, to learn skills they can use all through life, to help develop character and gain a sense of self-esteem," explained Larry Bystran, executive director of the Boy Scouts Pioneer Valley Council.

 

Colon, commissioner of the Springfield district, has been promoting Scouting to urban youth for 18 years. "We need to make sure every youth in urban communities is aware of Scouting. Kids can get a lot from Scouting if they are able to participate."

 

United Way funds did a lot for Ramos. "I never would have been able to go camping if it wasn't for United Way," Ramos said. "I really like getting outdoors and learning to do things you can't do in the city like camping, cooking, building a fire, learning to take care of yourself. It's good to get away from all the sirens and the negative stuff."

 

Ramos' Scouting career has had many high points. He's been to the National Jamboree in Fredericksburg, Va., twice; first in 2001 as a youth Scout and again in 2005 when he represented the area council as an assistant junior Scoutmaster. He achieved the rank of Eagle Scout, the highest in Scouting, in 2004, after taking on the challenge of building a new food pantry for his church.

 

"It took awhile to accomplish, but it was really worth it. Some kids rush through their Eagle project but I took my time to get it done. I got the full experience I could have gotten out of Scouting."

 

But his relationship with Colon has touched Ramos the most. "Mr. Colon treated all of us like we were young adults. He was always behind us to make sure we accomplished our goals," he said. "Herbie is more than my troop leader - he is my mentor. He became like my second father. He is always there for me."

 

Colon agrees. "I took Nathan in and mentored him. His father was never there for him so I tried to be a father figure, guide him and help him set some goals for himself," Colon said. The relationship became so close that at his Eagle Scout Court of Honor, Ramos pinned his Father Pin on Colon, an emotional moment for both of them.

 

Miranda is a strong supporter of Scouting. "Scouting made Nathan a leader; it has opened up so many doors for him," she said. "He found a whole new population of friends and mentors." Scouting is a big part of both of their lives.

 

Through the years, and with encouragement from Colon, Miranda herself has become very involved, making it to the upper levels of Leadership training by earning her Wood Badge. She now leads a Venture Crew troop in Springfield, a coed youth development program of Scouting available to youth 14 through 20 years of age.

 

"I'm faithful to the Boy Scouts," she says. "I want to stay with my boys. I know we will always be involved with Scouting."

 

Ramos, who has been involved in military programs at school since the age of 16, credits the skills and leadership qualities he learned in Scouting for getting him into the Reserve Officer Training Corps. Last week Ramos left for six months of basic training in the Army National Guard.

 

"When I get back, me and a friend are going to start a new troop. I figure the best way I can thank Scouting is to give back," he said.

 

Colon sees more in Ramos' future. "Nathan has come a long way in Scouting. He's been a role model for the rest of the kids in the troop. I see him as a community leader in the future and Scouting has played a huge role in that."

[Prairie_Scouter 10]

Well, this is certainly the part of Scouting that we can all agree on.

 

 

[scoutingagain 20]

I don't know. This is happening in a Blue state. Might encourage more liberals to join scouting.

 

Does anyone else find it ironic that there is a newspaper in Massachusetts call the Republican?

 

SA

[Lisabob 13]

"republican" can mean those who support a republic-style of government, where people choose representatives to make decisions on their behalf. In that sense, we're all republicans, even those of us who are also liberal Democrats.

 

Scoutingagain I'll admit: you hit on one of my hot buttons. Why is it that people assume liberals are necessarily anti-scouting? Yup, as a liberal I admit it...I disagree with certain policies of the BSA (3 guesses as to which ones). But you know what, we liberals can also see the tremendous value that scouting offers to our kids too. I'm willing to balance those factors. By the way I also disagree with certain stances my political party takes on some issues. But I still support them because in the big picture I think they have the right general ideas.

 

 

Lisa'bob

[BrentAllen 10]

Lisabob,

Why are liberal Democrats assumed to be anti-Scouting?

Well, maybe because when the National Democrat Party invites a Boy Scout Color Guard to their National Convention to carry in the flag, and then booh's them on nationwide tv, that would be a start. (hopefully, those Scouts didn't realize what was happening)

Maybe because a liberal wants to change the Pledge of Allegiance.

Maybe because liberals want to force the BSA to allow gays and atheists in.

Maybe because conservatives take the phrase "Timeless Values" to be more than just a bumper sticker, and liberals appear to want to do away with timeless (traditional) values.

Those would be a few major reasons.

[funscout 11]

Before I joined this forum, I had no idea that people with liberal ideas (see, I didn't "label" anyone!) would even WANT to be involved with scouting. I'm pleased to see that there are many of them who can overlook some of their ideals, in order to allow their boys to experience the wonderful program of scouting.

 

I know, too, that we can't generalize political views simply based on where people live. My brother (an Eagle scout) lives in California and works for Stanford University. He is very well liked by his co-workers despite his conservative, Christian beliefs. A few of his co-workers have even started questioning some of their own beliefs after discovering that conservatives who TRULY live what they preach, are decent people.

 

By the way, my brother's midwest upbringing, combined with his scouting background, landed him his first job in San Francisco, even though he wasn't even looking for a job at the time. He had just flown out to visit a friend, visited him at work, and was offered a job!

 

So, scouting's values really do still mean something in our country today!

[Lisabob 13]

Oh dear BrentAllen, I should've known that would touch off a screed.

 

Look, I understand that there are people out there who treat the BSA poorly and label this "liberalism." This is a very unfortunate mis-use of what it means to be a liberal though. I also understand that there are people out there who call themselves "conservatives" who take actions that a great many people find either dunderheaded or offensive too. Thank goodness I know that "conservative" is not necessarily synynomous with "horrible person."

 

To me, being liberal means standing up for core freedoms listed in the first amendment (among others), working tirelessly for rights for both the minority and majority voices in society, and doing what we can to make life better for all people. The main difference that I see between my view on liberalism and conservatism is that I believe government both can and should play a big role in helping people improve their lives, whereas most conservatives tend to see government as part of the problem and not the solution. OK, so we disagree on that. I really don't think it is necessary or productive for people to create a caricature of the "other" side as a result.

 

Now yes, as I said in my earlier post, I disagree with some BSA policies and the policy toward openly homosexual members is one. I think that the BSA suffers in terms of its public image because it/we get beat up for being anti-gay instead of getting recognition for all of the wonderful things our program offers to today's youth. I also think the policy is short sighted in its own right. However, I don't think forcing change from the outside would bring about the desired results and I do agree with the court that (like it or not) the BSA is a private organization and can therefore set membership requirements. In my view, change - if or when it finally happens - in this particular policy will have to come from within the BSA in order for it to be effective. You may disagree with that, and that's fine with me. I won't think less of you for doing so (grin).

 

I guess I just take a pragmatic approach. I happen to prefer yellow-and-purple plaid uniforms but unless I start the "Lisabob Scouts" I'm probably not going to succeed in getting everyone to wear uniforms like that. One has to balance one's preferences. I find things I don't like in youth soccer leagues around here too but in the balance, I think the leagues offer more positives than negatives. Same with scouting, the good far outweighs the bad.

 

But...it would be incorrect for people to assume that liberals don't share many of the same basic values that scouting teaches. We liberals value trustworthiness, loyalty, helpfulness, friendliness, courtesy, kindness, obedience, cheerfulness, thrift, bravery, cleanliness and reverence too. We want our kids to learn to be healthy, happy, independent, self-confident young leaders too. And no - most of us do not have a pair of horns poking out from under our hats.

 

So it seems to me like, when people suggest that all those liberals (or all those Democrats) are anti-BSA, that people are relying on a caricature instead of taking time to really share views with each other and LISTEN to the responses they get. It leads to a poor debate when that happens and people end up shouting past each other instead of talking to each other.

 

Lisa'bob

[Beavah 205]

Yah, well, I'm a conservative, and there are some Boy Scout values that I wish would go out of style.

 

Mail and fundraising fraud.

Inflated membership numbers.

Gross financial mismanagement.

Selling off camps for kids to pay salaries for "executives."

A rule for everything (best used to attack other volunteers).

PC "safety" prohibitions banning fun kids games.

High-impact camping.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Brent, I have a ceiling to paint, can I get the name of the store where you buy your paint brushes as you paint mighty wide

 

The booing of the scouts at the Democratic Convention was a poor display of those who booed. Is there any proof it was set up by the Democratic leadership at the time? I have heard varying stories about that incident, I would like to hear more. I dont think it was the Democratic Parties policy to boo Boy Scouts but rather select unruly people enjoying their right of free speech and unfortunately targeting those who least effect the policy they were protesting.

 

Next, does Pat Robertson talk for all consevatives when he says our National Policy should include policital assasination? or that God punished Sharon?

 

I thought it was an atheist that wanted to change the Declaration of Independence, might be liberal, may not Merlyn may be able to help us here. I do know that the hottest bed of Liberals, Massachusttes is amoung the most catholic of all the states, go figure them godless liberals.

 

Next when Conservatives talk about timeless values, would those be the ones exhibited by Abramhof?

 

Next of course is Howard Dean saying that no Democrat took a dime from Abramhof, which is about as hysterical as his rant following his loss in Iowa. I didn't know the sticky fingerness of politicians respected party lines.

 

I guess what I am trying to say is if you align yourself with a group that can only point out the foibles of another, you had better be darn sure your own house is clean and at this point Hercules had an easier time cleaning up The Augean Stables than either side will have tidying up after this disaster.

 

I am a registered Independent, which means I don't have to cringe anytime one of "my" kind is found which his hand in the cookie jar nor do I feel incumbent to throw garbage at the other side. I have a fine time watching from the sidelines and wonder when/if either/both sides will ever get to the task of directing a society rather then running down the "enemy". As commented on another post, all great societies fall, and most from within rather than from without, is this our beginning?

 

 

[funscout 11]

As Beavah and OGE pointed out, there are "bad apples" in every organization. Just because I consider myself a conservative Christian Republican, I would never condone illegal or immoral activities in the church or in the Republican party.

 

Getting back to the main point of this topic, I think we would all agree that scouting's principles help to make our youth become good leaders. I wish we could get back to the days where the politicians had to be good leaders, not just people with power who hold the most popular ideas. It's sad that many of today's politicians seem only to be able to slam the other side, rather than focusing on promoting the ideals that got them elected.

[BrentAllen 10]

Lisabob,

You asked a question, I gave the answer I feel to be true. No one else has answered, only attacked my answer. I'd be interested in hearing others answer, if they have one.

Who attends a National Convention for political parties? Is it not the leaders from the state parties? Is it not the national leaders? Democrats booed the Boy Scouts. If that doesn't get your blood boiling, then what does? I don't think this was scripted - I think it was an accurate reflection of how the party feels about the BSA. Any reason I shouldn't think that? Actions speak much louder than words.

 

OGE - if you don't think the guy trying to change the pledge is a liberal... I don't know what else to say. I guess standing on the sidelines is easy for those who don't either have a strong opinion, or don't want to join the fray. As has been discussed before, if you want to see the difference between Republicans and Democrats, watch what happens with Abramoff and those involved. The Republicans found guilty will be run out of office. The Democrats will most likely stick around. Why am I justified in saying that? Look at what happened to Trent Lott when he made some simple comments at a birthday party for Strom Thurmond, and what has happened to Clinton for referring to the House GOP as a "plantation". Look at what happened to Delay, and what happened to Leahy or Barney Frank. I can guarantee you no Republican who went through an event like Kennedy with Mary Jo would be elected to office. Yes, a KKK member was elected to serve one term as a Republican. One of the Democrats longest serving Senators was a Grand Cyclops in the KKK. Yes, I see huge differences between liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans. If you don't see that, then more power to you. I make no apologies for my political views.

[Lisabob 13]

BrentAllen, I don't have a problem with your political views, I just probably won't ever agree with you. Well hey, that's ok, you probably aren't going to agree with me either. And I do have strongly held views. But I also have family members whom I adore, who fall on all sides of the political fence (including under and over it) so over the years I've found it is far better to keep the polemics turned way, way down. At least - if I want to have a serious conversation or share thanksgiving dinner with the family.

 

I think, though, that there's an assumption out there (look at the first line in funscout's post, for example) that liberals all hate scouts. That's inaccurate, if not myopic. That was kind of my point.

 

Lisa'bob

 

 

 

[Lisabob 13]

BrentAllen, I don't have a problem with your political views, I just probably won't ever agree with you. Well hey, that's ok, you probably aren't going to agree with me either. And I do have strongly held views. But I also have family members whom I adore, who fall on all sides of the political fence (including under and over it) so over the years I've found it is far better to keep the polemics turned way, way down. At least - if I want to have a serious conversation or share thanksgiving dinner with the family.

 

I think, though, that there's an assumption out there (look at the first line in funscout's post, for example) that liberals all hate scouts. That's inaccurate, if not myopic. That was kind of my point.

 

Lisa'bob

 

 

 

[BrentAllen 10]

Lisabob,

We do have something we agree on. I also have family members of the left political stripe, and we get along great as long as we leave political discussions at the door. Same with some co-workers. This page is for Issues and Politics, so I let it fly here - I think that is what the page is for.

I know for sure that all liberals don't hate Scouts. Those on the far, far left - I think they probably do.

[gwd-scouter 11]

Only have one thing to add to this discussion. About the Pledge and "liberals" trying to take Under God out of it.

 

It wasn't there in the first place!

 

Original Pledge:

 

Frances Bellamy in 1892, as Chairman of the National Education Association prepared a program for public school celebration of Columbus Day. He structured this public school program around a flag raising ceremony and a flag salute. As he called it, his "Pledge of Allegiance."

 

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." [ * 'to' added later in in October, 1892. ]

 

He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans.

 

In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, "my Flag" to "the Flag of the United States of America."

 

In 1940, the Supreme Court ruled (Globitis decision) that schools can "compel" students to recite the Pledge.

 

The U.S. Congress recognized the Pledge officially in 1942.

 

In 1943, the Supreme Court overturned Gobitis and ruled in its Barnette decision that school children could not be forced to recite the Pledge as a part of their school day routine.

 

(WOW, way back in 1943! - and it didn't even mention GOD yet.)

 

In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words "under God"' to the Pledge.

 

After that, The Pledge became both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.