hops_scout Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 sst3rd is right. Their rank programs really dont compare. Girl Scouts is more based on age similar to Cub Scouts. Boy Scouts isnt. 4 or 5 things in common really arent that much either. You know, I could probably find that many things in common between you and me. Lets see..... 1. both male 2. both use the internet and scouter.com 3. both involved in scouts 4. both in this world 5. both have some kind of religion There's five, probably could come up with more if I really wanted to and I dont even know you very much. If any of that is wrong, then you had to of lied somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 You see, the differences between things can also be the basis for comparison. Making assumptions based on your apparent age, I would say: I am a college graduate and you're not I am married and you're not I am a parent and you're not I am a veteran and you're not I've been audited by the IRS and you haven't If you still want to compare my son and your web page, we can start: My son is a living creature and your web site isn't (Tron not withstanding) My son can earn Eagle Scout and your web site can't You see, you can compare anything if you want. Comparisons have to have constraints. If we say "awards from national youth organizations" we can compare the awards from Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, 4H, Boys Nation, Awanas, Royal Rangers, MCJROTC, etc. All these are valid comparisions. Now if you want to throw in the Navy Cross, that wouldn't be valid under the stated contraints but you could compare the Navy Cross and Eagle Scout if you changed the constraints to medals with multi-colored suspension ribbons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hops_scout Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Not really, is my site living, but I would defenitely consider it close. I update it daily and it has information about most of my life. And when I earn Eagle, you can bet it will be all over my website. And so you MIGHT be able to figure my username out, my website is located at http://hops19.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 And now kcolarusso do you see the silliness of comparisons? It even has FOG getting snotty with a young boy who was very polite and patient in his responses. What do they have in common? What do two different awards from two different organizations have in common? Which should we be more concerned with as as adult leaders? Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hops_scout Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Ah, thanks Bob, for seeing where I was going there. I'm glad somebody could see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 hops, I really don't care about your name. It may be because you have one leg or you are a hopscotch champ, it don't make no nevermind to me. Bob, I wouldn't classify hops_scout as a young boy. A young boy is still in Cub Scouts. Hops is a young man. BTW Bob, you did compare your car and your boss' car or else you could have never concluded that his wouldn't suit your needs. (This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 kcolarusso, I love tangents, perhaps thats why I liked Geometry so much. Anyway, have you noticed that in the progression of Palms, awards a Scout may earn after attaining Eagle, it goes Bronze, Gold, Silver? A Silver Palm is higher than a Gold Palm so it makes sense the Silver Award would be higher than the Gold in Venturing. In this matter BSA is internally consistent. Now, from what I undestand, the reason Silver is placed above Gold comes from Ancient Roman History. Gold was the symbol of the Roman Army, and Silver was the mark of the Ceasar. Silver supposedly was more prized than gold, though both well sought after. Ranking Gold above Silver started with the Modern Olympic movement. The U.S. Military follows this tradition it awards a Silver Star, not a Gold Star for bravery in combat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 The Silver Star is not the highest award for heroism awarded by the Armed Forces. The Distinguished Service Cross, Navy Cross and Air Force Cross are all higher awards than the Silver Star. Of course we also have the Medal of Honor which is a star and arguably gold in color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsteele Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 I really can't answer the original question either. I've looked at the requirements for the Gold Award and was impressed by them. If you're looking for an easy match, as has been pointed out, there isn't one. I speak from experience. I'm an Eagle Scout. My wife is a Gold Award recipient (I'm not even sure of the terminology.) I think we need to remember that the end result both GSUSA and BSA seek is to instill in youth the values represented by their (very similar Oaths and Laws.) How the organizations get there is different. My wife is at least as adept in the out-of-doors as I am, but we have different ideas on how to do things. Both work. She would measure up to any standard of the Boy Scout Oath and Law any of us could hold up to measure her. I like to think that I live my life as well. I can understand why someone who's curious would ask a member of both organizations about the differences, and, if asked, I would respond as I have above. I'll answer it more succinctly below: The Eagle Scout and Gold Awards are the highest ranks that can be earned in two similar, but different organizations. Earning either rank takes great effort on the part of the young man or woman and both awards deserve a great deal of respect. Those who earn them should be living examples and the pride of their organizations. And I'd leave it at that. Hope this helps. DS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 FOG, thank you for pointitng out that the Silver Star is not the highest award possible, I didnt think my post implied it was, but if I left that impresion I apologize. I did say the military has a Silver Star award, it does not have a Gold Star award, the awards higher than the Silver Star dont mention color/material at all. My reason for the post was to explain why in the BSA silver is placed above gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWScouter Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 You also seem foolish if you thought a major (gold oak leaf) was higher in rank than a lt. colonel (silver oak leaf). (This message has been edited by NWScouter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SagerScout Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Well, I'm currently a volunteer trainer for the GSUSA, and have been a troop leader for 5 years, and as y'all know I'm also an ASM for BSA. I've got a Star scout and a Cadette girl scout at my house. I agree with those that say we ought not be playing one-ups on one another; but I also think I might try to simply answer the question. First, please realize there are significant differences between the programs. Like, girls do not have "rank" advancement, recognitions are earned independently of one another (in general). There is no such thing as a registered merit badge counselor in GSUSA - leaders, assistant leaders, camp directors, parents all are able to sign off on IPP work. In my experience, most are pretty picky. In my opinion, the girls are expected to have more responsibility for service projects at an earlier age than the boys. OGE was close but not perfectly there with his observation that they have to do a small service project before doing silver or gold. There is a service project required for EVERY IPP (interest project patch) a CAd/Sr scout earns. Some suggested ones are things like "Host a sports day for younger girls," "Teach a group of older adults how to use a computer,"or "Volunteer to plan and conduct a weekend camporee;" :Make a videotape promoting girl scouting - let your council use it in recruiting." When the 11-yearolds that first read these requirements kind of choke, but they are getting over that by 13 or 14. In our area, for IPP work, young cadettes can do things as simple as organizing a craft time to make tray favors for the Veterans hospital, or as tough as that camporee job. But anyway, the bottom line is that any Cadette working on Silver or Senior working on Gold will have done a rock-bottom minimum of 5 service projects, not counting the ones they've just been helpers on at camp or whatever. Also, there is more lattitude offered within the badge programs to do activities that are not necessarily "in the book." This might be thought of as making it "easier" but the many threads regarding merit badge counselors that don't fully check make me feel that it's really about a wash. From my standpoint, it's rather nice as it does allow leaders to take advantage of unique learning opportunities. You know, like when you run into an especially good Native American volunteer at a museum that can cast an hour-long spell over the kids - you don't have to say "OK, girls, now that's all very nice but we've got to go count the arrowheads in Hall B to meet our Section 4.a.2.c requirement. " You can say, ya know, they learned at least that much from that volunteer as they would have in Hall B, even if she didn't cover the exact requirement. You do not need to earn silver before gold. The silver award is the highest award offered to Cadette scouts; the gold is the highest for a Senior scout, and the requirements are similar but recognize that the Cadettes will naturally work at a lower level of ability than the older girls. Girls who have been in the program all along may earn one or both. As an editorial note, girls can earn tons of IPP's or not, it is up to them, and in my area I think that there tends to be less pressure on them to fill their vests than there is pressure on the boys to make their rank and earn their MB. I don't have any parents that are pushing their girls (well, except maybe myself). My girls earned just a couple of IPP's last year, but they had a good time together so who am I to judge? I'm just the troop leader, you'll find me in the corner. With earplugs. Babbling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsteele Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Sager: I'm just a little old BSA pro who doesn't know much about Girl Scouting, so I'll take your word on the post you left. But I will comment on the post. Excellent job answering the question. The rest of us are kind of fumbling around, but you cut straight to the matter. Thank you. You did what I try to do, but with a higher level of success. Keep up the good work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 "My reason for the post was to explain why in the BSA silver is placed above gold." I not sure that dog hunts. The Silver Star was created on 9 JUL 1918 which is long after the BSA was founded and really long after the Olympics were restarted. However, we are just guessing. I've been searching but I cannot find anything near an authoratative source for why the palms are the colors that they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 OGE your dog hunts just fine. The eagle palms were not introduced unitl 1927 about 9 years after the military's Silver Star. Happy hunting, Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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