Some ethical scenarios at work

[sctmom 11]

Had to attend Diversity training at work yesterday. Wasnt as bad as I expected. A few of the discussions made me think of discussions on here and about the Scout Oath and Law. One in particular has me very upset with the company I work for but I will tell you later which one.

 

Scenario 1:

You are at a company sponsored after-hours event. Many people are drinking alcohol. The hour gets late. One person with a few too many drinks tells a racially offensive joke that makes everyone uncomfortable. What do you do?

 

A) Discreetly pull her/him aside and tell them it is time to go home.

B) Immediately point out the joke is not funny and is inappropriate.

C) Ignore it.

 

Scenario 2:

Same as above EXCEPT the person who told the joke is an executive in the company.

 

Scenario 3:

An executive calls a meeting for 4:00 on Friday afternoon. He insists that Joe must attend the meeting because Joe has more knowledge about the project than anyone else. Joe is Jewish and Friday is a Jewish Holiday that Joe has been planning on observing (as he always does). Joe goes to his manager about this. The executive insists the meeting time can not be changed.

What should happen?

 

A) Joe gets someone else up to speed on the project to attend in his place and the managers are understanding of his situation.

B) Joe keeps quiet and attends the meeting.

C) The managers refuse to let Joe have anyone attend in his place. Joe doesnt attend the meeting and gets a bad note on his annual review.

 

 

Comments? Discussion? Have you ever experienced any of these?

 

 

 

[evmori 11]

Scenerio 1 - Would say nothing at the time considering the person telling the joke was impaired and might react in an adverse manner. I would say something the next day, though.

 

Scenario 2 - same as #1.

 

Scenario 3 - Joe's manager is violating his civil rights. Joe should keep his plans & have someone who is knowledgable of the reason for the meeting attend the meeting.

 

I have never like Diversity Training. It seems these type of things always take the vanilla approach to life.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[SagerScout 10]

I'm female and hopefully less likely to be punched out by a drunk. I might out-and-out say it " That's NOT funny." Or I might use the frosty glare approach, a more refined version of communicating the same thing. Irrelevant who said it.

 

On the last situation, of course Joe honors his real bosses' instructions and observes the Jewish holiday, after first doing his best to cover his absence to do his duty to his employer. If he gets a black mark on his review, he climbs up the management ladder as far as necessary to fix it. If that doesn't work, there's no end of attorneys willing to help out, or depending on Joe's qualifications, he might make his point better by finding a better employer elsewhere. I figure if your employer wouldn't want to fight to keep you, you are in the wrong job anyway. (That said, when market forces conspire to make even good employees unemployed, as is the case now, great personal stamina, insane optimism, intense creativity and immense initiative are needed to find and land the right job...so pray for your friends who are seeking work. )

 

 

[SagerScout 10]

Oh, yes, and I did experience more than one incident in which a more sensitive female could have taken offense earlier in my career:

 

1) Theoretically competitive interview for a field tech service job - asked repeatedly how my husband would feel about me having to go out "drinking with the boys" to help the chemical company's tech service operations. My competition - a man - was only asked how he'd feel about a 10% raise? For the record, my employment history at the time had three five-star reviews on it with maximum raises, he had several reprimands for various offenses including two-hour lunches and failing to meet deadlines.

 

After a couple more years with this company, and continued very good reviews, observation of the upper echelons led me to believe that the glass ceiling there was set pretty low. I voted with my feet, leaving for greener pastures, and noted with interest and amusement that the company lost millions in a EEOC lawsuit in which a small herd of female employees reported very similar experiences in about the same time frame as my employment there. Since I personally had not suffered any economic losses, due to my refocussing of my career, I did not bother to join their suit but was not sorry to see it succeed.

 

2) Although I am not in any way, shape or form a sex kitten type. being a life-long tomboy, not especially pretty or well-endowed, wear minimum makeup as I consider it a waste of time, and usually wore jeans and tidy camp shirts to work - I experienced harassment from an employee in the form of a barrage of unwanted love letters, sort-of stalking type activities, and other unsought and undesired attentions. I tried multiple times to deflect and defuse the situation but did finally have to seek supervisory intervention. Turned out the fellow had a history of this type of problem. The boss REALLY explained to him the situation in short English words (one more strike and you are out the door...) he didn't talk to me at all for about a month- kinda uncomfortable since he reported to me - and then he apologized and we became very good friends after that. He was a good worker, too.

 

That was a really good boss. Dave, if you're out there, way to go...

 

It has improved considerably over the past 20 years. Of course, I now own my own business and have no boss but myself- that helps too...

 

 

 

 

 

[littlebillie 10]

First 2, I gotta make some changes...

 

1. I would "A) Discreetly pull her/him aside and tell them that was offensive, and you might want to think about apologizing"

 

2. I would "A) Discreetly pull her/him aside and tell them that was offensive, and you REALLY want to think about apologizing"

 

(Yeah, well - the exec. has a bigger liability, lawsuit-wise...)

 

3. I need more info.

a. Does he USUALLY leave at 4 on Fri?

b. Also, when is corporate quitting time

on Friday?

c. IF strictly due to the holiday, and not

normally done for the Sabbath, had he

lodged his intent to leave early prior

to the announcement for the meeting?

d. Does the 'review process' include an

employee's response procedure?

e. Can the exec be dinged in the same

review process for HIS insensitivity?

f. Does Joe ever come in on Sundays, work

Christmas, or anything else that shows

HE's a religious team player even if

the exec is not? Ok, now that I type

this one, I'm not sure it should matter,

but I'll leave it in anyway.

g. Does the exec - just out of curiosity -

observe his own Sabbaths without fail?

h. Can the exec involved make arrangemnts

to get Joe whereever he needs to be

AFTER the meeting and BEFORE sundown,

and would he do so?

 

The High Holy days are a lot more meaningful - from certain perspectives at least, if not from others - than the regular Sabbath, which starts at sundown on Friday, and since this involves a Friday, I'd need to know the real intent here. Also, is Joe Reformed, Conservative or Orthodox?

 

 

[sctmom 11]

Scenario 1 and 2 had some discussion about should you say something right then and there or pull them aside. A lot of people felt like it depended on the severity of the joke. It was assumed the joke was extremely offensive. If you stand there and say nothing are you condoning that type of behavior?

 

 

Scenario 3: the correct answer was for the employee to try to prepare someone to take his place.

THEN the "facilitator" said "everyone needs to realize that sometimes we have to make sacrifices for the good of the company and Joe may just have to work".

YIKES! I spoke up and asked for clarification. Was told that yes sometimes Christians have to work on Sunday and even on Christmas. So we will ask people to compromise their religious beliefs for "the good of the company"?

 

Now you need to realize we provide computer resources for back office activities of a major corporation. We do NOT support the service the company sells, we do NOT save lives. We aren't talking about "borderline" or "questionable" religions either.

 

I am very upset by this type of big business attitude and how many people said "oh well". Even though I do not belong to a religion that strictly forbids work on certain days, I feel that asking others to compromise their religious beliefs and values is terribly wrong. Is this happening everywhere? Is this part of the problem with our country and world?

 

Oh, at the same time the company is letting people go and sending work overseas because it is cheaper. Buy American? Maybe you think you do but where is the corporation back office day to day work being done? This is a trend now in computers to send the work overseas and pay people $10,000 per year. No it's not child labor and I understand business but how many companies are doing this and then touting "we are American".

 

Sorry, let me step down off my soapbox.

 

 

 

 

[berkshirescouter 11]

Let me say up front, as some of you know, I am Jewish. My own employer has given me personal days which I take for these holidays. I am a field engineer and travel nationwide/worldwide 100+ days a year (I also make almost every Scout campout and summer camp). I make a point of giving notice that I will not be working on those holidays and will, if I am on site go to services there. The customers always understand one even set it up for me (he was Christian!). I also will fill in on Easter and Christmas whenever possible. If you are up front there should be no problem. BTW wether someone is Reformed, Conservative or Orthodox is not relevant.

[littlebillie 10]

Its Trail Day,

 

Well, I gotta disagree. An Orthodox Jew most likely will NOT want to use a standard cell phone connecting to a teleconference once the 3 stars are visible and he's on foot, not wanting to talk business on the Sabbath, etc, but a Reformed may very well not mind, if he's on his way to the services AND on the TC at the same time, plugged into his car's cigarette lighter socket (which could spark, even if the Orthodox was still being driven by the Shabbes goy chauffeur)

 

and et cetera

 

[berkshirescouter 11]

littlebillie

My point was that if someone is Jewish and wants to observe the holiday is does not matter that they may be Reformed. "A Reformed may very well not mind" but he may and thats all that matters.

[littlebillie 10]

your point is taken as a given. MY point was there can be work-arounds for Reformed that would not be considered by Orthodox. I'm tired of Jews being seen and treated and described as all exactly the same. It's like saying a Lutheran is the same as a Catholic is the same as an Episcopalian.

[berkshirescouter 11]

You are correct in your point, a question of a work around can be asked of the the Reformed where it would be an insult to ask an Orthodox. However if the Reformed does want to observe the Holiday that should be the end of it.

[littlebillie 10]

as I said, THAT was taken as a given.

 

but perhaps maybe it shouldn't..? your comment "However if the Reformed does want to observe the Holiday that should be the end of it" begs another issue. Let's add this to the mix - if Christian execs are called upon to work, say, Christmas or Easter, year after year, and/or are regularly called upon to work Sundays, regardless of their religious plans - for whatever reason, needs of the service or what-have-you - and if fact the company displays uniform disregard for any and all religious holidays, regardless of faith - what impact does this have on the current deliberations? Would allowing the Jewish employee the chance to observe the holiday be a kind of reverse discrimination? (Does it matter if it's Rosh Hashanah or Purim?)

 

Now - let's say Joe is a Moslem, and it's Ramadan. Joe's Americanized, he's going to work, he prays quietly - but he still wants to get to the mosque by sundown! Now it's not just one night, it's a month of not being available for working late.

 

The answer to the one question must be able to be fairly applied to all, I'd think, and the treatment of any one religion must be the treatment of all..?

 

[sctmom 11]

My problem is that anyone is being asked to compromise their religious beliefs. If they tell you to not attend a service that you feel is important what else will they ask? For you lie, cheat and steal?

 

So what if a person is not able to work late for a month? If someone is consistently working late then there is a problem -- perhaps he has more work than one person can do.

 

 

[berkshirescouter 11]

When I interviewed for my present job I stated up front what I would be working as far as holidays go. This was accepted. If it had not been I do not know what I would have done at the time. There are laws on the books but how they are used or abused can cause more problems then they are worth.

A company's policy in this area could also go back to its ethics in general (Look at Enron). Would you work for them?

Scout Oath and Law vs company policies what would you do?

[acco40 95]

When considered for employment, you owe your potential employer an upfront assessment on how your religious beliefs may effect your work effectiveness. Your potential employer owes you the potential impact your employment may have on your religious observances.

 

For example, I work in the defense industry (private company) and the US Government is notorious for releasing RFPs (requests for proposals) in late November, mid December and wanting a response by early January. The Government works hard, gets their work done rught before the holidays and then releases it. Companies that have any hope for a winning proposal are forced to expect from their key employees 15+ hour days throughout the holiday season to complete the tasks on time. Ain't capitalism grand?(This message has been edited by acco40)