Staffing nylt vs woodbadge

[deaker]

I'm considering volunteering to staff either nylt or wood badge. Having never attended nylt, I know little about it other than obvious: youth vs adult participants.

 

My oldest son is currently a webelos. I've been den leader and cubmaster. I'm leaning toward nylt as the exposure to the boy scout program "of the right sort" seems to be something that will make me a better leader for my unit and especially when I go up with my sons into troop.

 

Thoughts?

 

David

I used to be a bear......

[moosetracker]

I have never staffed an NYLT either, but we are starting to merge NYLT staff trainings with Woodbadge staff trainings.. This is what I am seeing and those who staff NYLT can correct my mistakes.

 

NYLT has a few adults on staff, but most of the positions are run by the boys..

NYLT seems to have the same presentations as Woodbadge, and is very close to the same course (if not the same course), only it is low tech (they do not use power point but flip charts).. They also work more Rah.. Rah.. into their presentations, to keep the boys more interactive during the long presentations.

NYLT is harder for them to get adult staffing, due to the adults not knowing much about it, where Woodbadge has an easier time finding staff, so you may be more appreciated doing the NYLT staffing..

[Eamonn]

Hi deaker, I'm not sure how things are done in your area, but around where I live CD's normally invite the people they want to be on staff.

I don't mean to cause any offense but from what you post it seems that you might be a little off base.

While we all learn something from having served on a staff. We need to remember that the course isn't about us or for us, it's about the participants and for the participants.

I've not had a lot to do with NYLT. I was Council Training Chair and back then we had JLTC, I selected the CD for theses courses and when asked helped the CD find staff both youth and adult.

I don't think that we would even consider an adult for JLTC who hadn't shown some considerable experience working with Boy Scouts and shown a good understanding of the program.

While NYLT is not the old JLTC and a lot is very different, I still think that a good in depth knowledge of working with the youth who will be participating is essential.

If I were in your shoes, I'd accept the invite to staff a Wood Badge course, if and when it comes and then get five or six years working with older youth before even thinking about staffing NYLT.

Ea.

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[KC9DDI]

I'm a long time NYLT staffer, but have no exposure to WB.

 

In my council, the NYLT staff is almost entirely youth. We have adults serving only as SMs and ASMs. We actually run two troops simultaneously in one course, so we have a few more adults in administrative roles - but all of the other staff are youth who have previously completed NYLT as participants. It is, in fact, a youth-led operation, and we try to model an ideal Scouting unit by truly letting the youth take the reigns.

 

NYLT does use the same general course material as WB, but as I understand it there are some elements that are not shared between the two courses (which makes sense - youth training and adult training are two very different things). In my council anyway, we do use the powerpoint and video resources from National in NYLT (my feelings on that are for another thread...)

 

As moosetracker alluded to, NYLT generally doesn't have the same entrenched "sacred" traditions that WB seems to, and NYLT staff typically don't occupy the same elite, elevated status that WB staff seem to have. (I know I'm making some sweeping generalizations here, I'm not trying to cause any offense, but I am just calling it like I see it).

 

We need to remember that the course isn't about us or for us, it's about the participants and for the participants.

 

I'm going to disagree a little bit with Eamonn, because I think that NYLT staff stand to gain as much as NYLT participants when participating in NYLT. While I agree that the emphasis should be on providing an excellent training for the participants, I continue to see how our youth and adult staff benefits from the experience of staffing the course. I know that I have.

 

I won't suggest accepting an invitation to staff one course over the other, but I can tell you that NYLT would still be a valuable experience for you, and I'm sure that your help would be appreciated.

[moosetracker]

deaker - Eamonn is correct.. I was reading into it that you had been asked by both groups and was considering which one you wanted to help with..

 

Woodbadge definatly has a line-up of people wanting to be asked, you can let the course director know you are interested, but will most likely be put on a long list, and they may or may not call you.. They look for people with the right personality and has worked in Council or district long enough that others will vouch for you being someone that is dependable.. You have to commit to be at ALL staff meeting never missing a single one, and be someone that will not backout midway..

 

The NYLT, as said is known to have more difficulty getting staff, but they also will ask who they would like to be on staff..

 

Both want those who are dependable, and take the positions seriously enough to work at home on your presentations and not just come in and try to wing it (usually resulting in a poor presentation).. Also, they normally want the personalities that walk into a room and command attention, or light up the room with their personalities..

[SeattlePioneer]

Personally, I think Wood Badge is overpromoted and overstaffed.

 

There are lots of things in Scouting that need more attention and volunteers, but Wood Badge isn't one of them.

 

 

 

[moosetracker]

SP - maybe another good reason they do not take you for WB staff unless your are involved in other things at District/Council level..

[KC9DDI]

moosetracker - I'm not sure I see the connection. It had been my understanding that WB, like NYLT, was narrowly focused on developing unit-level (pack, troop, crew) leaders, rather than district or council-level leaders...

[BDPT00]

I think what he's getting at is that if you're hidden within your unit, and never get out there and train anywhere or become a bit more visible, it's likely you'll be missed when Wood Badge or NYLT folks are asking around for potential staffers. If nobody knows who you are, how will you ever get recommended to serve on a staff? (In other words, you get noticed at district and council events.)

BDPT00

[moosetracker]

Yeah - What BPT00 said, that was the first point I was making..

 

But with SP's statement just made me think, I am sure we are not the only council who have people really wanting to be on woodbadge staff.. Why, is this seen as more exciting to Scouters over other district needs? Reason being is that if the staff is well picked, the staff make the course look like it is really fun to hang around with the staff and be apart of the course, no work involved, just a good time.. (Basement.. I said "staff is well picked" so not comments from the peanut gallery).. Well those who get up to being a course Director are usually so well ensconced in their council & district programs, that I am sure they realize the need for good help, and appreciate those that offer to help in areas that may look more like work and less like fun.. So, just a comment that this being the case, since being on WB staff is highly coveted, whether intentionally or not, when choosing from a list of potentials why wouldn't they reward those that have been of great help to them in areas where few would volunteer?

 

but, KC9DDI brings up another good point.. I was selected to be on WB staff this year.. I guareentee you had I not taken on the District Training Chair position, I would not have been asked.. They had two openings, that of Troop Guide, and that of Scribe.. Originally their intent was to make me Troop Guide.. I told them I was better placed as Scribe because I was too shy to do the Troop Guide well.. So the Course director email me the next day, and indicates that as Scribe I would still need to do a presentation, and to the whole group rather then 8 people.. Would I be more comfortable with the one large presentation to all, or a small group setting of small presentations.. I told him the presentations were not the issue, it was that my personality is more of a quiet observer rather then the type to light up a room when I walk in and draw everyone out and get everyone to mingle with each other and feel welcomed.. So a new Scribe is born.. Now I get my presentation.. There are 30 minute presentation & 60 minute presentations. I get "Leading Change" a 60 minute presentation, which I am told is the most important, pivital presentation of them all (comment made in a verbal public meeting with all staffers present, not something said privately where each staffer is told they have the most important presentation) "Not to put pressure on you, but your presentation is the first after comeing back from a 2 week leave from the course.. You must get them back into the frame of mind of what they are here for.. It is the most pivotal presentation"..

 

Ok, let me tell you about my EDGE training (which I took before I was asked to staff WB.. Because as DTC, I should have it).. I totally messed up my impromptu presentation (losy without alot of rehersal & practice), I did ok with my planned presentation.. But in the end they have you write something on a memo card (I forget the question asked).. But I wrote.. "I am so glad my trainers have to do this presentation stuff, and I never have to do it, ever again".. To the utter dismay of the current Council Training Chair & past Council Training Chair, who took the time to sit me down and tell me why I wanted to do some of the training myself..

 

Who recommeded me to the WB course director to put on his list of WB staff potential people? It was the current Council Training Chair... I firmly believe she had a bug in the WB course directors ear when I was handed this particular presentation also.. I truely believe I am on staff to hone my presentation skills and as a way to bond with the Council and district Training Chairs.. I would say at least 40% of the staff are the District Training Staff.. When you look at the top leadership positions on staff more like 80%.. Many reasons for this, those that are District Training Staff (DTS) are interested in in training, so have a natural interest in wanting to be included in WB and even staying for a few years & climbing up the ladder to someday Course Director. Since these folks get high on the staff ladder and able to choose the staff, other trainers & District Trainers will be the people they get to know as to dependablity, and willingness to help when called.. So other trainers will be in their eye, then too other district/council staff members they rub elbows with.. But, lastly.. Yes WB I believe is a place that the Council Training Staff use to train up their District Training staff, and also bond with them..

 

Not sure if anyone else sees this as a good thing, or of a "good ole' boys" group.. But, really I do not see anything wrong with it as long as they are not a static group of the same guys year after year who will never let anyone into their ranks.. They just pick their staff from a smaller pool of Scouters known to be helpful, and Scouters who are interested in Training other Scouters, rather then some guy who helps with their unit, but is unknown to them.

 

So yes, WB staffing can also be used as a tool to hone the skills of the Staff members also.. It is stated, and I am already seeing this as true.. You are introduced the lessons of Woodbadge as a participant, but as a staffer you have the time to really learn the lessons and put them into practice(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[Eamonn]

When it was made known that I was going to be a WB CD, people came out of the woodwork hinting and asking to be considered as staff members, other people who had served on staff asked if their friends, relations and whatever might also be asked.

Some when they discovered that they hadn't been invited, didn't take it that well.

One of the things that I was looking for was people that were good presenters.

Like it or not, the people who had been involved and with training and had proved that they could do a good good of presenting.

I haven't been involved with the NYLT course, but when as Council Training Chair I was selecting a SM for JLTC, I was looking for Scoutmasters who understood the methods of Scouting and had a record of being able to work with the youth would make up the Staff.

Finding a staff for JLTC was really hard. In fact one year I wasn't able to get any takers and the Scouts from our Council attended the course the Council next door was running.

Sometime after my term as Training Chair was over, my son was on JLTC staff for a couple of years.

I was invited to attend the feast that they were having.

The day of the feast it was raining really hard. I arrived at the site to find the SM in a poncho standing in the rain grilling steaks.

I have to admit that when I seen him cooking with a group of Scouts watching, I couldn't help but think that he just hadn't got it.

I still stand by what I said about staffing courses where the youth are doing most of the work.

The staff need to have the know how and the knowledge that takes time to develop when it comes to working with a youth staff.

Of course a newbie will learn a lot but that isn't what the course is about.

It has to be about presenting the best possible course for the participants.

 

Wood Badge has come a long way and done a lot to get away from the good old boy network. Sure some of it is still around, but more and more I'm seeing people who took the course one year being invited to staff the next. Back in the day, that just didn't happen.

Ea.

[Crew21_Adv]

deaker, Fellow WB Staffers and Fellow NYLT Staffers,

 

Greetings!

 

Only a few comments. Like Eammon and moosetracker stated. Usually WB and NYLT staff are invited. Most every staffer accepts an offer to staff, but I don't think many volunteer. Maybe its your terminology. It does no harm to offer you availability to the course directors "I'm here if you need me"; but don't state your volunteering to be on their staff "I'm here, cause you definately need my help".

 

Now regarding your question; the current WB21C is a cross of Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting and Venturing, a demonstration of an year long annual program, all delivered in five days, while learning five tools and additional principles. Five days, covering three genres of programs.

 

NYLT is Boy Scouting and Venturing, demonstrating a month long program of the activities of a troop (not a crew) while learning leadership, planning and communication principles in five days. "The life of an average troop in a month"

 

In NYLT, they look up to the few adult staffers as a role model. The NYLT adult staff should have experience working with 11-18 year old Boy Scouts and 13-21 Venturers. From my recall, there is only one lesson conducted by the SM during NYLT, all the remaining lessons are Boy Scout/Venturer led. Though the adult NYLT Staff may comment on ocassion and ask how learning is progressing while visiting the patrols during meals.

 

Understanding what happens at NYLT would be good. To appeciate that Scouts should go to their Patrol Leader, and the Patrol Leader should go to their Senior Patrol Leader. To understand that there is a program, and sometimes an ASPL-Programs. To understand that the scribe actually writes and issues out Brownsea Bulletins (like the Gilwell Gazzette), to see Patrol Spirit, Cheers, Flags, and to see a Patrol work together, whom didn't know each other 2-3 days earlier. These are all important.

 

But attending NYLT as a Cub Scout Leader, I think you would best serve is an assistant working for an ASM, working for a QM. I trust you would be fast learner taking on Cubmaster; but your oldest is 10 maybe, and you probably don't have much experience talking to 48 15-16 year olds. Essentially, silent but present, and learn how to communicate and guide youth leaders. You should definately make yourself available for NYLT staff, but maybe after one son is already a Boy Scout.

 

Hopefully the Course Directors observe your availability, bring you onboard, and use your talents.

 

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[SR540Beaver]

SP,

 

Woodbadge overstaffed? I've served as a Troop Guide and had my hands full. I've served as a QM with two AQM's and we worked out butts off. I've served as ASM-Program and backup CD with responsibility for the Scribe abd his two assistants and didn't get in bed before 1 or 2 AM each night. WB staff positions are well defined with a set of job responsibilities and my experience is that each staff job has plenty to do to keep you busy the entire course. I've never seen a WB staffer sitting around with nothing to do. Let me rephrase that, I've never seen a WB staffer who sat around who ever staffed a second course.

[SR540Beaver]

deaker,

 

I agree with everything Eammon said. I will however say that I ended up staffing a WB course because I let a particular CD I knew know that I would be interested in staffing. It wasn't calling in a favor or anything like that. She had been on staff for the WB course I went thru and that is how I first became acquainted with her. Later on I ran into her when my son was still a Webelos and she talked to me about signing him up for the 2005 Jamboree because he would be old enough when it rolled around. I threw my hat in the ring and applied for adult leadership and was fortunate enough to be selected. She ran things for Jambo from the council side. When I heard she was going to be a CD, I emailed her and told her that if the opportunity existed, I'd be open to staffing, but understood she had lots of people asking and was fine if she didn't have a spot for me. She did. Now, I can tell you as a three time staffer that we all keep our eyes on participants to see if there are any who would make good future staffers and pass their names on. Some are great scouters, but just do not have the personality or presentation skills to staff. While nothing my come of it immediately, it never hurts to put a bug in someone's ear that you are interested. Often, we make our own "luck".

[deaker]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts although the thread seemed to run a little off course most likely due to how I phrased my original posting. I've been involved in various trainings and district-wide activities. Our council conducts 3 full WB courses locally each year plus a 4th at Philmont. They have I believe 4 NYLT courses this summer plus a winter and spring break course as well.

 

At the recent WB reunion for the council and district roundtables, they have made a call out for people interested in staffing WB or NYLT.

 

I firmly believe what Moosetracker said: "So yes, WB staffing can also be used as a tool to hone the skills of the Staff members also.. It is stated, and I am already seeing this as true.. You are introduced the lessons of Woodbadge as a participant, but as a staffer you have the time to really learn the lessons and put them into practice."

 

Given that I would like to serve and they are activly asking people to express their interest, I am considering how and when I could serve in this way. I had not thought of serving on NYLT staff before the adult-course director (I believe all the title's have now changed again so I'm not sure what they are using now) for this summer's NYLT explicitly suggested that anyone considering staffing WB may prefer NYLT where adult volunteers are less plentiful as it's just not thought of as much.

 

But from what I gather from you all, is that staffing NYLT should I be offered such an opportunity to serve may be best delayed a few years until I have been involved directly with my children at the troop level. I can accept this, but its not dissimilar from the old-school perspective that WB was for seasoned leaders, which they have tried to dispell so that the WB message and tools can be imparted at an earlier stage in a BSA leaders "career".

 

In any event, thank you for your thoughts.