How much training is the minumum to serve ?

[TNScoutTroop 10]

'Mazzuca doesn't seem to care since in his own words,"Scouting is not about setting up tents or camping in the woods."'

 

He said that?? Sheesh.

 

Do you know where?

 

TN Scout Troop

 

[BadenP 93]

TN

 

Mazzucca stated that in one of his first interviews right after being selected CSE. He has a very different vision for the future of scouting, and in my opinion it is not for the better.

[John-in-KC 311]

Tom Peters said it long ago: Train and retrain constantly. The first aid skills I learned 40 years ago as a Boy Scout are different from the skills I refreshed recently. Best practices change.

 

Scouting offers lots of supplemental training opportunities. Take advantage of them. My skills as a D.O. cook have improved because of supplemental training.

 

Work backwards. Assess yourself against the skills needed for your program. Where you assess yourself weak, find and take training to solve the weakness.

 

HTH. YIS.

[Kudu 186]

BadenP writes:

 

Mazzucca stated that in one of his first interviews right after being selected CSE. He has a very different vision for the future of scouting, and in my opinion it is not for the better.

 

The basic idea is to replace the Scoutcraft mandated in our Congressional Charter with "Character and Leadership." This has been the goal of Wood Badge since 1965, but it was first introduced the year before he was hired. Note that his description of Scoutcraft (which he belittles as "rubbing two sticks together") in the USA Today article is similar to the description of the Patrol Method in SM Specific Training as "Adult Association":

 

"Our goal is not to teach someone to rub two sticks together and make a fire. But when you rub two sticks together and make a fire side by side with an adult of good character, you're going to learn about who you are and go on to lead men...

 

"You can teach a kid about character and leadership using aerospace and computers. The secret is to get them side by side with adults of character.

 

"We recognize the evolving science of leadership. We've had CEOs on our board say they want to send their people to Wood Badge, our adult leader training program, because we use state-of-the-art techniques."

 

The MSNBC clip of him introducing his goal of recruiting 100,000 Hispanics in 2010 is more to the point:

 

"Camping is not necessarily a big thing with them, as a matter of fact in some cases it is not big at all. So we need to kind of think about, is it more important that we reach that child with the kind of things we have for children and we have for families in character development and leadership skill growth and all of those things? Or is it more important that we get them in a tent next week? And so I think the answer to that is fairly obvious to us."

 

http://inquiry.net/leadership/sitting_side_by_side_with_adults.htm

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

[Stosh 3452]

Everyone needs a skeptic to balance out any discussion.

 

A person can sit through every training program BSA has to offer and still not be ready to be a leader.

 

To a certain extent some of the problem lies with the training program offered by BSA and to a certain extent some of the problem lies with the attitudes and opinions of the leadership candidate.

 

I might know all the skills necessary to be a SM, but if I cannot inspire and motivate young men, it's a waste of time.

 

I might be able to motivate and inspire, but to what end if there is no goal? You want an Eagle patch with a resume entry? Sure I can get you that, no problem, we'll knock it out by the time you're 14 years old, then you can quit and get on with girls and cars and sports and other more important things.

 

I guess I look for different qualifications than just training when it comes to adult leaders.

 

... are they interested in more than just their son's success?

... are they real leaders and can motivate and inspire all the kids?

... are they patient enough to let the kid struggle and grow at his own pace?

... are they trainable in scout-craft skills?

... can they take a really crappy outing and see it as an adventure of a lifetime?

... can they take on a challenge, fall flat on their face and still maintain safety and security of everyone around them?

... do they seriously believe every Tiger Cub/Webelos cross-over is going to be Cubmaster/Scoutmaster some day?

 

How does one create a training program for any of that?

 

Stosh

 

 

[BadenP 93]

Stosh

 

How about a training with the emphasis on developing advanced scoutcraft skills and teaching motivational techniques to others in learning to use those skills out in the field. There is nothing in the current BSA training agenda that covers that.

[JFL49 10]

BadenP,

 

Philmont offers more advanced courses, like the one you described:

 

http://www.philmontscoutranch.org/PTC/conferences2011/Trek%20Leader%20Planning%20and%20Advanced%20Outdoor%20Skills.aspx

 

http://www.philmontscoutranch.org/PTC/conferences2011.aspx

 

 

[Stosh 3452]

That's all fine and dandy, but I thought we were talking about the minimum, not the advanced, head across country spend big bucks kinda training. Just the small town stuff to get a new leader up and running and doing a halfway decent job to begin with.

 

So often the training we do for adults is exactly the opposite of what we hope to accomplish in the troop.

 

Set up chairs, get out a video, have a flip-chart, lecture 'til your ears fall off. Do a break, if you're Cubs, maybe sing a song and then maybe have a little hands on game so everyone can avoid the dreaded afternoon of another two hours of sitting in a chair, and get another lecture on motivating young boys.

 

Better yet, put it on-line so I can at least get a comfortable chair while I get bored to death with slide after slide of information and a test at the end which asks questions you just had answered for you about 2 minutes earlier. Then print out a certificate with your name on it that shows you pushed all the right buttons.

 

Nope, I learned the most about scouts and scouting sitting around a campfire chatting with the old guard, reading a few books, watching others do their thing, etc. Eventually I figured out what was the good stuff that worked for my boys and what didn't.

 

Were these "mentors" the cream of the crop? Heck no! Some were shining examples of great leadership and others were dire warnings of what could happen to you if you didn't pay attention.

 

The minimum training would simply be an orientation to the BSA. The rest of the techniques are generally bogus and contrived. Everyone has a different style of leadership using different skill sets and attitudes. There's no training that can deal with those processes.

 

Ever notice that one leader walks into a room and all the boys stick to him like he's magnetic or something. The next guy is a dork. What do they see that we don't?

 

Maybe the kids ought to be teaching what the minimum requirements should be.

 

Stosh

[BadenP 93]

Stosh

I agree with you about impractical and costly it is to go across country to Philmont, and how "contrived" much of the BSA local training is. The problem is that many of the so called trainers are not adequately trained and just stand up there reading from a syllabus which they don't really understand, especially when you ask a question. Online training may be a convienent supplement but is NOT truly training,IMO. The problem is in many cases the training committee itself who do not go out and find experts in the fields being taught and instead try to muddle through on their own. Like it or not that is one of main reasons we have scouts continually dying on camping trips, carelessly starting fires, destroying wilderness areas by not following LNT policies, etc.

 

So whats the solution? Clearly National hasn't got a clue since it continues to allow these substandard training methods to qualify scout leaders who are as lost as the kids in many cases. Maybe Mazzuca is right and we take the whole camping thing out of scouting. Or maybe there is a better solution and IMHO that is what we should be discussing here.

[rdclements 10]

The Girl Scouts in my area do a lot less outdoor activities than the BSA units and most of what camping they do is in established camps using semi-perm tents and cabins. They also have a more structured training program that they require for adults. Before you can take the girls out to camp, you have to actually take a class in specific skills. However, they also have a test-out option, so if you feel experienced in relevant outdoor skills, you can take a test and have it reviewed. If they agree, you get credit for the training.

 

BSA will continue to add requirements for training. I know of units who will not consider anyone for scoutmaster unless they have WB21. You could have the perfect guy for scoutmaster but without beads, no way.