Over-haul of Training

[GernBlansten 10]

JohnInKC,

We are only restricted if we mandate youth must be part of the leadership. I don't. I would allow it, but don't require it.

A winter course would be GREAT! though. Just think the skills you would learn and be able to apply to your unit. OKPIK anyone?

 

But practically, the courses would have to run when most timid suburbanites would be willing to venture away from their warm cabins, RVs and car camps. Also, availability to scout ranches would limit us to pre/post summer camps. Probably one session before and one after. That would concentrate the participants and get several patrols in each session. Staff from summer camp might be able to help at the stations. Service projects could be included to help camp setup and take down.

[prairie 10]

Where do I sign up!

Just been rereading my 1950s era handbooks for scoutmaster and patrol leader, this dovetails almost perfectly. As to the proablem of not enough time in one week, why not have a training/testing season a week before, so that those who won't do any preparing ahead of time to be ready can be asked to comeback whey the are prepared. As an example, if they can't tie 5 or 6 basic knots they they are not ready, theres too much to cover with out doing remedial training. Or is the intention to take total novices and turn then into woodsmen/women? IE how low is the bar?

P.S. please don't make Woodbadge a prerequiste, some can't afford the time for that kind of training.

 

[GernBlansten 10]

The only prerequisite would be an minimal equipment list, the only obligation, a commitment to take this training back to the youth. A novice will have a lot to learn in a short time, a seasoned outdoorsman will have a great time learning the scout way and helping the novice. Both will come out of the week knowing how to competently take scouts beyond the parking lot, and how much fun it can be.

[John-in-KC 311]

prairie,

 

Gern actually nailed it. There are many, many folks out there who neither understand, respect, nor enjoy the outdoors. Look at the suburbanites who invade the ski slopes for a few hours each winters day, then retreat to the lodges ... or never even get out of the lodges.

 

The mindset of my father's generation (the greatest generation), where so many American men spent time in the outdoors because they had to, but discovered they loved it... is almost gone.

[Hal_Crawford 15]

National Capital Area Council offers a course called Back Country Outdoor Leaders' Skills that is sort of a graduate version of the SM/Venture Leader training. It is one day in a class room and an overnight. I don't think it reaches the level that you are envisioning but it is a good start. The following is pasted from the flyer for the course:

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BACK COUNTRY OUTDOOR LEADER SKILLS -- 2008

 

This course is aimed at all adults working with older youth regardless of program (Venture Patrol, Varsity Scout,

Venturing Crew, or Explorer Post).

 

The target audience are leaders planning High Adventure treks at backcountry venues not supported by BSA

infrastructure; however, units planning to attend High Adventure bases supported by BSA will find this course

useful, inasmuch as unit shakedowns will, most likely, take place in venues not supported by BSA infrastructure.

 

Back Country Outdoor Leader Skills is offered by the Council Training Committee as an optional follow-on to the basic

course, Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills. Its goal is to provide adult leaders with an overview of such topics as:

 

Working With Older Youth

Risk Management

Wilderness First Aid

Leave No Trace

Terrain Awareness

Cooking & Clean-up

Personal Hygiene

Resources

Equipment Needs

Equipment Maintenance

On the Trail Tips

Teambuilding & Leadership Development

 

Part 1 Addresses ways to effectively work with older youth and covers the detailed preparation and planning that

must be done before you go out including risk management. Summarizes the personal and crew equipment used for

lightweight camping. Plans are also made for the weekend overnight session.

 

Part 2 Participants will practice core leader skills for the outdoor program Leave No Trace, navigation (map &

compass plus GPS), terrain awareness, expedition menu planning and food preparation, stove and stove maintenance,

wilderness first aid issues, expedition health and hygiene, team building.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

The course went way beyond the Leader Specific/IOLS course. The overnight had the class divided into backcountry patrols (sadly without the hiking-We only had to hoof it for about 100 yds) and practiced backcountry cooking, LNT, camp site set up, bear bagging etc.

 

One of the more interesting discussions was transitioning troop gear away from the chuck box toward lighter weight gear. The rationale was that scouts don't have to unlearn car camping when they head into the back country. Also, now that many of us don't have huge vehicles the gear often needs to go in the trunk of a compact car.

 

Trainers were excellent and some were active nationally so this may be a pilot program.

 

The only prerequisites are that students have to have registered and 21 or over, have completed the Boy Scout, Venturing or Varsity Leader Specific Training and have a current Class 3 physical.

 

I think the course that you guys are thinking about would be similar to the above but with a longer outdoor component.

 

Hal

[ctbailey 10]

I think GernBadge is a great idea in concept, but I fear that a one-week crash course that runs through all the scout skills would too much for complete newbies, and they would become overloaded with training, and get nothing out of it by getting too much thrown at them.

 

These skills that you would be teaching, the trainers themselves have been learning them over the course of a lifetime, and you did not pick them up in a week's time.

 

I would urge GernBadge to be a week-long refresher course for the trainers. I suspect a course full of experienced outdoorspeople, who would rotate the position of "trainer" would be an excellent course.

 

But of course, the point of GernBadge is to get the scout skills to the new leaders... but where? I have found that new leaders are more often than not overwhelmed by "Scouting committments." Like Camporee, Klondyke, Jamboree, and of course their own unit camp outs.

 

Why not incorporate a short course, focusing on one or two skills at a District or Council event? This would help in multiple ways: It would force the youth into running their unit with the patrol method, because the adult leaders are at training, instead of running the campsite. Also the leaders would be getting scoutskills trained to them in short bursts, hopefully with a greater retention than they would having multiple skills shotgunned at them.

 

Just my $0.02

 

Craig

[SR540Beaver 116]

Wood Badge NEVER was an outdoor skills training course. It has always been leadership training in a troop/patrol format since BP's first course.

 

IOLS is skills training. It's purpose is to teach those with direct contact how to do and teach the skills needed from Tenderfoot thru First Class.

 

Powderhorn is a beginning for high adventure.

 

In our council, we have our own home grown supplemental course that is offered twice a year. It is called OST - Outdoors Skills Training. Like Wood Badge, it is two weekends. It covers everything beyond First Class more in depth. It is all outdoors like IOLS and in a patrol format but more advanced. The participants are required to use a backpack and hike and move locations daily.

[prairie 10]

Gern and John:

If you think that will work I'm all for it.

[scoutldr 732]

"Anyway, for a Scoutcraft one week course, what would you say would be essential?"

 

All of the T-2-1 requirements. From the 1965 edition of the BS Handbook.

[John-in-KC 311]

prairie,

 

If I knew what would work, I'd be entrepeneurial, writing a training package and selling it on consultancy.

 

Instead, I'm as confuzzled as everyone else. So, I'm here helping to brainstorm.

 

I was a kid as we transitioned backcountry operations from the Townsend Whelen and Bradford Angier models (anyone else read "On Your Own in the Wilderness" here?), which emphasized horse packs and full outfit camps, to Colin Fletcher's "The Complete Walker", which emphasized a "house on your back."

 

Both models of camp are still out there: We somewhat derisively call the Whelen/Angier model "car camping" now, but the Fletcher model is what we aspire to.

 

We also have fewer and fewer folk learning fieldcraft from the military. From 1975 to 1995 or so, our Army ran at 788,000 folk. Since 1995, it's been around 500,000. Believe it or not, that's pretty close to historic norms for our "small Army" model... very close to 1/10 of 1%. That's not a lot of folk learning how to live well in the backcountry.

 

So ... the one thing I absolutely concur with here, is we have a need for outdoor education and training of adults.

 

ETA: Scoutldr, disagree. Browse beds? Hello. They were part of 1965 Scoutcraft (that's the book I was T-L under). Trench fires? Cutting saplings? Morse/Semaphore as practical languages? (again giving due recognition to Stosh).

 

1965 book is a starting point, but the Scoutcraft does need critical evaluation, line by line.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Kudu 186]

OldGreyEagle writes:

 

OK, Kudu's right, Wood Badge has been hijacked

 

Use the active voice, OGE, not the passive voice:

 

"White Stag hijacked Wood Badge."

 

OldGreyEagle writes:

 

I am talking about Scout Craft only.

 

That WAS the hijack, OldGreyEagle: The idea that Scoutcraft can be separated from Patrol Leadership.

 

That is why Bill Hillcourt fought so desperately against removing Scoutcraft from Wood Badge.

 

That is why SR540Beaver is DEAD WRONG: You can NOT separate Scoutcraft from "Leadership."

 

Leadership skills are fake. If they were "Real" then every Holder of the Wood Badge would brag about how far apart his Patrols camp (or--more radically--how often they hike and camp without adult supervision, as was the "Wood Badge has always been about leadership" standard before White Stag hijacked Wood Badge).

 

Therefore, GernBlansten's description of "Gern Badge" is perfect EXCEPT for the most important thing: What he describes is really just the "right stuff" that White Stag Wood Badge stole from the Boy Scouts: Practical, real-world, Position-Specific Training for Patrol Leaders.

 

Gern Badge is NOT "Scoutcraft" (in the "modern" sense of checking stuff off a list for advancement), moving your Patrol around is LEADERSHIP ITSELF.

 

Leadership = Applied Scoutcraft + Charisma

 

Kudu

(This message has been edited by kudu)

[scoutldr 732]

Ok, JOhn, I concede those points. LNT, certainly. But what I was remembering (from memory) was

 

Edible plants

First aid

Trailing, tracking and stalking (incl trail signs)

Cooking

Camping

Knots and Lashings

Hiking (as in "five mile hikes x 3")

Swimming

Fire starting (w/o matches)

Knife and axe

Celestial navigation

Orienteering (Map and compass) (ok, maybe "map and GPS")

Signaling (I still remember most of the semaphore...hope to use it one day)

Basic survival

[John-in-KC 311]

We're closer than we think.

 

I think rather than semaphore, in this day of aviation based lost person searches, we need to teach all of us standard ground - air emergency rescue procedures, from a fire to the big symbols.

[SR540Beaver 116]

Kudu, give it a rest. Leadership and skills can indeed be taught as separate courses that compliment each other. It is foolish to hang the end all and be all of the patrol method on the actualy number of feet separating patrols on a campout. If that is you actual measuring stick of success, you are missing the goal by a country mile.

 

Your hatred of the current BSA program and WB are legendary here, but getting quite old. You don't have to repeat it in every post as we are all fully aware of your feelings.

[shortridge 184]

SR540Beaver wrote: "Wood Badge NEVER was an outdoor skills training course. It has always been leadership training in a troop/patrol format since BP's first course.

IOLS is skills training. It's purpose is to teach those with direct contact how to do and teach the skills needed from Tenderfoot thru First Class."

 

And which is regarded as the pinnacle of adult leader training?

 

In my world, it would be Advanced IOLS/GernBadge, with some NCS thrown in for good measure.

 

Related: I think Kudu's points are quite valuable, in fact. They go to the core of a very important issue - whether skills should be taught independently of this thing we call leadership, or whether they're intertwined. That question is integral to the discussion on this thread, IMHO.