WoodBadge "Ticket" Question

[KC9DDI 11]

Hi - we have an odd situation in our troop - an ASM has transfered into the troop, having attended WB at his previous unit. He currently is working on his ticket with our troop. Unfortunately, this has not been an all-together pleasant experience for the troop. For example, this gentleman has been known to challenge the Scoutmaster's authority in front of the ENTIRE troop in a loud, confrontation tone (pertaining to a spontaneous change that HE wanted made in the PLC's troop meeting plan.) Other times he has gone around the PLC, SM and Committee and developed his own plans, which he expects the troop to use, superceding our own 18-month calendar, which the PLC adds to and revises every 6-12 months. In all of these situations (and there are more) he says that he's doing these things due to his WoodBadge training obligations.

 

So, my question is, what's the procedure when the WB staff reviews his progress on his ticket? Will there be any communication between the WB people and the SM, kind of as an evaluation of this guy's actions? I'm just a third-party observer to this situation (trying to stay out of this guy's way as much as possible), but I'm interested to know what the procedure is for evaluating this kind of thing.

[John-in-KC 311]

I cannot answer the other questions, but it sounds to me like the ASM being a WBer working his ticket is the least of all problems here.

 

Please note: We never have all the info here in these posts. We're working with what you give us.

 

WBer working his ticket or no, if the SM and CC are having problems with this Scouter, they need to have a cup of coffee with him. This cup can be done either individually or together, but it needs to be done away from the Scouts.

 

The gent is an ASM; he is a program side Scouter who operates under the leadership/management of the SM. His tasks and expectations are given him by the SM. If he takes issue with tasks or expectations, that needs to be done away from the youth.

 

If the ASM takes issue with policies or practices, that again is between him and the SM. By policy (maybe not by this Troops actual practice), the SM is ex officio a member of the Troop Committee. ASMs are not.

 

The CC needs to be at these meetings to re-emphasize that the SM is the program officer, and accountable to the CC and the COR for delivering the program.

 

Obviously, as the SM and CC are doing this, they need to be seeking inputa and feedback from the ASM. There may be something he sees as a new pair of eyes that is no longer inside BSA policy and practice. We've all had National give us a "gotcha," whether it's a change to a MB program or a safety practice. The CC and SM should listen for feedback, and if appropriate, make the change.

 

Let's hope all concerned get the burrs out from under the saddles with a simple offsite visit over coffee.

 

Now, that may not work. If things do not right themselves, the CC, working with the SM, needs to keep the COR and the serving UC informed. This ASM may have to be re-assigned to a committee-side position. The worst case option is that the CC has to tell the Scouter "sorry, your services are not needed in this Troop. I will so inform the COR, and have your position on-charter changed to Committee Member forthwith. You will be a committeeman without portfolio."

 

Let us know how this works out.

[Lisabob 13]

Oh boy. No, his behavior has nothing to do w/ his woodbadge ticket, or at least it should not. WB tickets are supposed to be developed and completed in cooperation with - not in loud, rude, counter-productive opposition to - whatever group of people they will impact. That's part of the point - get everyone to buy into the same vision. Perhaps this guy slept through all the training on team building and leading change that he should've gotten as part of his WB course.

 

To deal w/ the WB issue: One option might be to inquire as to who the course director for this fellow's WB course was, and give the course director a call. If this ASM won't tell you or you don't want to ask him, check with your council office; they'll know. Explain the situation to the CD. Let the CD handle it from there (and hopefully she or he will do so).

 

As for handling his behavior in the troop, separate from the WB issue: Normally I would agree with John but in this case, I don't know that forcibly re-assigning this fellow to a committee position is likely to change his behavior in any way. If that quiet chat with the SM and CC doesn't work, I'd be inclined to let him know that his services are neither needed, nor desired, as an adult leader in any capacity. Besides which, one thing the CC doesn't need is a belligerent committee member.

 

You mentioned that he is a transfer from another troop? I wonder if he tried and failed to pull the same kinds of stunts there too?

 

Lisa'bob

 

 

[John-in-KC 311]

Lisa's advice about contacting the Course Director is spot-on.

 

She's also right about if this guy is an obstinate sonofagun, then neither the SM or CC will want him near youth or other Scouters. Gee, isn't collaboration FUN? Her idea was better than mine

 

How can the SM and CC deal with this ASM?

 

First, let's hope the ASM is willing to listen and to change. That sets up a win-win.

 

Re-reading the original post, he may have written a ticket item of the "create a viable planning process for the PLC of Troop 123". If so, it's still not his to implement out of hand. In order, the CC, the SM, and lastly but most importantly, the PLC have buy into it.

 

Now, I know our ASM received classes in both active listening as well as in giving and receiving feedback. Now is the time for some feedback to him (it's a gift ) ... if he insists on ramrodding and over-riding the SM, there will be consequences, they will happen to him, and said consequences won't be fun.

 

If the ASM is unwilling to change, there's quite possibly a lose-lose setting up here, with any Scouting son of the ASM being the final loser (care to bet he'd get pulled from Scouts?).

 

Now, if after the CC and SM visit with the ASM, let's assume the ASM is unwilling to change, either overtly (he says so) or covertly (there isn't any change in any realistic time). Then, the CC and SM need to visit with the COR. While the CC can move the ASM to the Committee, the COR can decide if the ASM gets to be a Scouter at all. He is the one who can say (or write) "you will no longer serve in this unit, and your membership in BSA will not be renewed by us at recharter."

 

That means whatever your current charter year is, you have to live with him getting through it.

 

Lisa introduced another point: Who signed off on the adult leader app when this ASM transferred across? Who checked references? The COR receives the app from the CC. Did the CC do the checks neeeded? Did the COR backcheck? Why did this ASM transfer???

 

Thanks to the Lisa the Bobwhite for flying into this one

 

John

[t158sm 10]

John, Lisabob - great advice. There's no excuse for anyone in the troop acting in such a manner, certainly most of all not in front of the Scouts. Running a Scout troop is difficult enough without someone trying to play the big tough guy who runs over anything in his way.

I'm willing to bet this one caused problems in his old troop and maybe even in the Wood badge course as well.

[SWScouter 34]

Well, I'm just willing to bet that the SA's ticket really doesn't fit with the unit he transferred into. That may be part of the problem; he's trying to work his ticket in with a unit it wasn't written for (like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole).

 

Perhaps it would be beneficial for the SM to sit down with the SA and discuss his ticket and see how it can fit in with the unit. Also, there is nothing stopping the SA from working with his troop guide (or ticket advisor) and amending it to better fit with the unit he's transferred to. It seems to me that it would be a win/win for the troop and the SA if the SM could get an understanding of what the SA's vision is and to get alignment with the SM's vision for the troop.

 

SWScouter

[Eagledad 2777]

To answer the question, there will likely be only little review between the WB staff and the ASM, and no review between the WB staff and your SM. You guys are on your own. It sounds as is if you dont have anyone WB trained other than this ASM, which could cause more problems if you Troop is intimidated by him. However, the WB experience does not give anyone permission to have and upperhand over scouters without the experience.

 

We had a somewhat similar problem and in the end, it took the CC and UC telling the ASM the she was no longer welcome to the meetings to stop a year long frustration with her. She eventually left our troop for another, then another. Our Troop was her second troop.

 

My suggestion is the sooner your adults sit down and firmly lay out the program with this adult, the less aggravation your adults and scouts will have to deal with in the near future.

 

Scouting is a great youth program until the adults get involved.

 

Barry

 

[AvidSM 11]

I agree with previous posts in that working a ticket is no excuse for confrontational behavior. A WB participant should know better!

 

The problem could be that this new ASM's WB ticket is no longer applicable to his new role in scouting. If this is the case, he needs to sit down with his ticket advisor a rewrite the entire thing! Perhaps he knows this and doesn't want to go back to square one?

 

His ticket adviser is the person you need to contact. This is the only person from his WB course who should be reviewing his progress and providing advice. The Scoutmaster of the WB course can also get involved if need be. He or she keeps in touch with all the advisors and tracks the overall progress of all participants of the course.

 

 

[eagle-pete 11]

I'd like to address this issue. I apologize for the late reply.

 

I can only offer this as food for thought. I cannot address the specifics of that troop nor the circomstances behind any behaviors illustrated in the original post.

 

Here we go...

 

The Wood Badge, and I am speaking of the award earned after having completed the practical course and working the ticket to the satisfaction of the participant and the Troop Guide, is a personal, soul-searching effort which yeilds its own rewards. Only the participant can truly place a value on it. Therefore you will notice there are many levels of value placed on the Wood Badge. Everything from another ornament to be hung on the wall to a deeply personal representation of an experience which has changed a life. This is by design.

 

That having been said, it should be clear that any and all Wood Badge participants, even one such as described in the original post, can only receive the reward which they intend to earn.

 

I would assume... No, I am sure, that a number of Wood Badge participants, probably a relatively few number, but surprisingly more than we realize, attend the Wood Badge training for the sole purpose of getting the beads. That's ok. I can say this, reassuring myself that, for me, the value of Wood Badge will never change, as it has personal signifigance. My Wood Badge is, for me, what I intended to earn. For some, it may hold less value, but it is, indeed, only what they intended to earn.

 

As for the participant described in the original post, his Wood Badge is between himself and his Troup Guide. He, and he alone must wrestle with the dilemma of what is it worth, and how much is he willing to pay.

 

Indeed, this is a model for many of life's goals. What is, truly, the value of your Wood Badge? How much would you pay to obtain it? Is it only as cheap as the thong of leather holding the beads? Recall the message of "Two Tiny Wooden Beads"

 

"Who knows but that this effort, this crusade, may flourish to the end that two tiny wooden beads on a leather thong may yet become the symbol of a succeeding effort to bring about a World Brotherhood of Man under a Fatherhood of God." (http://www.woodbadge.org/Ceremonies/wbtinybeads.htm).

 

Eagle Pete