The BSA, Program is it still relevant to 21st century youth?

[BadenP 93]

After reading the thread on are scouts really scouty anymore I wondered about this topic. Putting all our fond remembrances and the nostalgia behind us, and looking at the National decline in membership in specifically boy scout troops is the outdoor program really appealing anymore. These generations being brought up where playing video games and extreme sports is all encompassing, and most all social interchange is done online, does the program need to be adjusted or do we have to find a new way to reach out to those youth who think scouting is "geeky", and how do we do that.

 

If we all look at this from an unemotional and pragmatic viewpoint can and will the boy scout program be able to survive, and more important continue to grow over the next century? What do you think?

[Kahuna 172]

Take a look at my post under "Scouty" so I won't have to repeat it here. Is it relevant? Of course it is. As long as boys like it, it's relevant. It does have to change a bit with the times, it always has.

 

What has changed is the leaders, as I point out on the other thread, and the activities we have to compete with. Never has the BSA had as many other organizations and activities competing for the boys time. Never has the BSA been under siege by outfits like the ACLU before. Never have parents had as much concern about what might happen to their boys.

 

I don't think the BSA will ever have the percentage of youth that it has had in the past, but that doesn't reflect anything wrong with the program. It's just that the times they are a' changin'. That shouldn't get us down as long we like the program and as long we find boys who do, too.

[SemperParatus 1]

I don't know...it seems lately that scouting is a lot less geeky than hovering over a computer keyboard chatting with people you will never meet or staring at a TV screen playing video games. At a minimum, I know of 60 boys that think scouting is pretty cool and that's all that matters.

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

The BSA is not a perfect program nor does it attract 100% of youth at any one time. The BSA excludes girls, gays, and atheists, so the BSA will continue to attract negative attention for their policy of discrimination. The lack of accounting control in some regions and the in-school Scouting programs that appear to be there only to increase numbers, draws criticism. For those that find sports, the arts, or academics as their primary focus, then the BSA might not fit their time commitments. For those that want to sit and type or joy-stick on the computer unceasingly, then the BSA is not as attractive. The BSA primarily uses the outdoor program so many with disabilities find it difficult to become active in those programs. With the self imposed problems and societal changes, it still leaves many from every category that do find that it does meet their needs. The BSA slowly changes as new challenges and demands confront it. So, Scouting remains a viable force in a complex world and in the world recreational programs for youth today.

FB

 

[Its Me 10]

I think the BSA program can be very relevant now and in the future especially if the focus remains on the outdoors. The emphasis must be on outdoor fun and activities followed by super citizen model making second.

 

If we assume that access to the ourdoors will be ever more foriegn to our over scheduled, suburban and urban youths (cities are still growing). If the kids are stimulated by adventures as seen in the one tv (think Animal Planet, Fear-Factor, Survivior). If the BSA presents itself as a ready made organization to educate youth and families about the outdoors. Then BSA will remain a strong and relevant program.

 

But BSA must deliver too. Who knows maybe one day someone from this forum will take up the call from several posters to go out start their own outdoor youth program.

 

The campaign:

"Never seen a campfire, join scouts".

"Never been in a canoe, join scouts".

"Never been more than five miles from a fast food joint, then join scouts."

 

[dkurtenbach 348]

A few thoughts on this.

 

(1) I have often thought that it might be worthwhile for BSA to develop a second program for 11- to 18-year olds, to run parallel with Boy Scouting. The program would be, in essence, an extension of the Cub Scouting activities framework that focuses on building life skills and pursuing interests in a variety of areas -- sports, science, health, crafts and hobbies, mechanical skills, arts, etc. In short, Scouting that is not outdoor-centered. Imagine a patrol of 15-year-olds tearing apart lawn mower engines or forming a garage band. Instead of a lot of the outdoors and a taste of other things (through merit badges), these guys would get a lot of other things with just a taste of the outdoors.

 

(2) It is possible that, if B-P were living today and thinking about creating Scouting, he might not choose the Outdoors as the "stage" for his program. Regardless, the Outdoors is what we've been working with for a century, and we have nearly a million boys just in Boy Scouting and Varsity, so the Outdoors is still viable.

 

(3) Actually, I would argue that the Outdoors is more viable than ever, if we learned to use it properly. Outdoor adventure sports are exploding in popularity -- just check out the magazine rack in the local drugstore or the proliferation of "outdoor stores" in the shopping malls. (I just read an article about how so many people in Colorado are trying to bag 14,000 foot peaks that it is becoming a problem for the Parks Service and the landowners and a threat to the alpine ecosystems.) The Appalachian Trail Conservancy (ATC, formerly the Appalachian Trail Conference) is developing new outreach and membership initiatives to take advantage of the increased popularity of hiking and backpacking. Yet BSA seems to have done nothing to "catch the wave," much less be on the leading edge.

 

I submit that this lack of iniative is an unintended result of how we view the Outdoors in the structure of our program. For us the Outdoors is just a tool; a Method, not an Aim. We try to use the Outdoors properly when we use it, but we don't give it much thought when we aren't using it. We are "in" the Outdoors but not "of" the Outdoors. As an organization, Scouting is not really an interest group or advocate for protection and responsible use of the environment, expansion of national parks, or development of outdoor skill and knowledge for their own sakes. Rather, we care about those things only to the extent they advance our real goals of building character, citizenship, and fitness. (It often seems that we only care about Outdoor skills because we need them for Advancement.)

 

To conclude, I think one big thing we could do to keep Boy Scouting relevant is to elevate the Outdoors from a Method to an Aim of Scouting, right up there with the other three: Character Development, Citizenship Training, Personal Fitness, and Outdoor Expertise.

 

Dan Kurtenbach

Fairfax, VA

[madkins007 10]

I strongly agree about the idea of a parallel program- although I wouod hope we could figure out a way to integrate it into the 'main' program so non-woodsy Scouts (and Scouters) can still fulfill the primary mission.

 

I also agree that there is a certain degree of 'relevancy' missing in our outdoor program- a certain degree of challenge and focus.

 

Too many units 'camp' by hauling a ton of canvas and cookgear in a trailer out to the nearest state or county park, setting up what appears to be a WWII re-enactment campsite complete with field kitchen, then run the Scouts through an alternating series of football games, 'nature' hikes ("There's a squirrel. That's a tree..."), and classes for skills like knots, firemaking, and food burning.

 

Now- sometimes that's about all you CAN do, given the limited nearby sites you can hit while there is still sunshine after school and work on Friday.

 

Our Scouts complained bitterly about those kinds of campouts.

 

So... we tried to mix it up. Working with the JLC, we planned survival campouts, campouts with themes like solar cooking and tracking, trialing, and stalking, etc.

 

By the time we got our Scouts out there, it was pretty much the WWII reinactment and food-burning classes again. We got to know the squirrels by name. This happened for many reasons- mostly sheer inertia (and just as much because of the inertia of our really big adult corps as anything else), but I am still convinced that 'camping' in the Scouts (at least in some units) needs a breath of fresh air.

 

Next time around, I'd like to introduce some different possibilkties, like...

 

1.) No Repeats/Sites- unless there is a good reason, we don't go back to a campsite for at least 2 years. Get more aggressive looking for new places to try.

 

2.) No Repeats/Food- Hot dogs and Pop-Tarts? Sure- this time, but you cannot repeat a menu this year, so what the next time?

 

3.) Make it Yourself- For several campouts a year, make some item and use it- tents, bedrolls, survival kits, solar cookers, water heater units, folding gear carts, home-made mess kit, ice cream maker...

 

4.) 'Camp And...'- Sometimes, use the camping to achieve another (non-camping) goal, even if the goal is to go out for pizza or ice cream at that great little place down the road. Hit a sporting event or amusement park, watch an air show, etc.

 

5.) Thematic Campiing- survival, no utensils, castaway/shipwreck, Survivor, Red/Blue war games, nocturnal program...

 

6.) 'Give'em a Break'- Once in a while, let the senior Scouts camp apart from the younger guys. Have the adults cook for the youth (especially to reward them for something like a big conservation project, etc.) 'Cater' the camp- bring in boxed meals and leave the cook stuff at home.

 

and so on.

 

I know a lot of you are already doing some of these, and I bet your guys love at least some of them!

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Does anybody see how a Arts and Hobby, or a Relgious Life, or Sports Venturing Crew with youth 14 to 21 would work with the parallel BSA program?

[dkurtenbach 348]

OldGreyEagle wrote:

----------

Does anybody see how a Arts and Hobby, or a Relgious Life, or Sports Venturing Crew with youth 14 to 21 would work with the parallel BSA program?

----------

 

I suspect that it would work pretty much the same way that Outdoor Venturing Crews work with Boy Scouting -- hit and miss.

 

Dan Kurtenbach

Fairfax, VA

[CNYScouter 46]

OGE writes:

 

Does anybody see how Arts and Hobby, or a Religious Life, or Sports Venturing Crew with youth 14 to 21 would work with the parallel BSA program?

Outdoors is not a method of Venturing. High Adventure is. High Adventure to an Outdoor oriented Venturing Crew is different than High Adventure to an Arts and Hobby Venturing Crew.

If you use the philosophy of:

 

Its not the destination thats important; its how you get there.

The trips a crew does is not importantas long as the youth do all the planning for a trip, the youth can learn the same set of skills if a Arts and Hobby Venturing Crew does a trip to a museum or Religious Life does a trip to a youth rally or if a Sports Venturing Crew does a trip to a major sporting event as the outdoor crew does in planning a backpacking or canoe trip.

The Aims of Scouting can still be taught with these types of crews.

CNYScouter

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Maybe I should have stood in bed, but here I go

 

What did I misunderstand? I thought the Venturing Program would do nicely as the alternative program you seemingly asked for

 

 

[dkurtenbach 348]

The Venturing program might serve well as an advanced/alternative version of the parallel/"indoor" Scouting program I suggested, just as it can serve as an advanced/alternative version of Boy Scouting. I apologize for not getting into more detail previously. I see an alternative "indoor" or "life skills" Scouting program as covering the same range as Boy Scouting -- 11 (or 10 1/2 + AoL or graduated 5th grade) through 17, and being "boys only." Venturing's minimum age is 14 and graduated 8th grade, and crews can be co-ed. I also see the "life skills" Scouting program using as much of the Boy Scouting structure and as many of the Boy Scouting Methods (Advancement, Patrols, etc.) as possible, but substituting Life Skills for Outdoors. Because Boy Scouting and Venturing have several differences in their structure and Methods, Venturing wouldn't quite fill the bill. Now, there is no reason we couldn't also develop a co-ed club-type program for the 11-and-up crowd -- "Junior Venturing."

 

Shifting gears a bit, in my post yesterday I suggested giving a renewed emphasis to the Outdoors as a fundamental component of Scouting. Doing so would be a way for people both inside and outside our program to connect Scouting with something concrete and important in our world today.

 

Two other potential ways to do that, and come a bit closer to our emphasis on our Aims (character, citizenship, fitness) would be to develop initiatives to really identify Scouting with one or both of the following:

 

* Readiness -- The Boy Scout motto is "Be Prepared." In this age of terrorist threats and natural disasters, when our newest heroes are "First Responders," a program that teaches first aid, resourcefulness, outdoor skills, and emergency preparedness should be a natural "star" among American youth programs.

 

* Fitness -- The dramatic increase in youth obesity and our national focus on health make this the perfect opportunity for Scouting to "break out" as a major proponent and provider of youth fitness programs.

 

The operative word in the title of this thread is "relevant." I suggest that relevance is simply a matter of marketing. We make ourselves relevant by identifying something about our program that a segment of the population need or want, and selling it to them. Our program has, I think, at three major elements (outdoors, readiness, fitness) that are or can be attractive to a lot of youth and families and corporations and other institutions in America today. But we aren't selling them.

 

Dan Kurtenbach

Fairfax, VA

[CNYScouter 46]

Sorry OGE i didn't understand your post.

 

Are you suggesting maybe to extend the Venturing program to younger kids?

Boys and girls from 10 to 14 (5th to 8th grade) with the same methods?

 

I think the ages would need to be seperated and not open a crew to younger than 14 or 9th grade (high school age) but it may draw a whole new set of kids.

 

What would this be called?

Venturing Pack?

Venturing Troop?

Venturing Group?

Venturing Squad?

Venturing Circle?

Venturing Team?

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Talk about confusion, but I just know if we try hard enough we will understand.

 

Well, I not thinking of a Junior Venturing group. I was thinking that the Venture Program Arts and Hobbies section would answer the question of starting a garage band (how many chords in G-l-o-r-i-a?) or the lawnmower repair group. I was not considering those still in middle school (grades 6-8) not in the Venturing age range

 

What about the Learning for Life program? I dont know much about it other than its for the age range I think we are talking about and is open to all, and I mean all youth. Could this program help? A quick description of what I council I serve does in this regard is found at

 

http://www.minsitrails.com/programs/learning.asp

[dkurtenbach 348]

Don't know much about Learning for Life, but the website, www.learning-for-life.org , seems to indicate that there are two parts to the program: in-school lesson plans in areas such as critical thinking, social skills, ethical choices, careers, and leadership; and Exploring, the co-ed workplace-based program for youth 14 (and graduated 8th grade) through 20 that focuses on career opportunities, life skills, citizenship, character education, and leadership. LFL serves 1.4 million youth (about half of the number served by traditional Scouting programs). Neither piece of the program looks like it would serve the "game with a purpose" function of an indoor/hobbies/sports/life skills Scouting program for Boy Scout-age boys using Boy Scouting Methods.

 

Dan Kurtenbach

Fairfax, VA