Archery/BB and parents who want rules bent

[5yearscouter]

It's not like going to the pool with the whole den while this boy does his aquanaut and the other boys perhaps brush up on some swimming and have FUN would be detrimental to anybody's program. There should be time built in for FUN, and in this instance telling her you can't do the bbgun/archery cause of council rules, but you CAN do aquanaut in this way would be offering an olive branch to the mom--rather than distancing her and putting your foot down that no it isn't in your program.

 

Realize also that this webelos scout may be feeling totally left out and not really happy missing out on the things due to his mom. Drawing him back into the program by doing another visit to a pool would be a no-brainer for retention in my honest opinion.

 

Lets the boy know you care about him, let the other boys know that they are part of a team/den/patrol and sometimes you do circle around and do something over again to help out your friend.

 

Aside from the fact, doing aquanaut again, all the way thru for everyone would be an opportunity to remind everyone that scouting isn't one time and done--that every year they'll need to redo that swim test, that every summer camp they go to they'll need to redo that swim test, so they should get comfortable with it. it will only help them when they become boy scouts.

[kari_cardi]

Venividi said, >Many are offering possible ways to accomodate this mother to get her son aquanaut activity pin.

My advice is "don't do it". If you are having difficulty with this parent now, you won't make things any better by changing the program that you have planned in order to accomodate her wishes. Demanding people continue to be demanding; if she is successful at getting you to change your program, she will find other changes that she will want you to make.

 

If your program gets the boys to Arrow of Light without aquanaut, stand by your program. Any suggested changes, put back on that parent to organize - under the condition that ALL the boys in the den are invited to participate, and that it is a reasonable cost for the families.<

 

I don't understand this point of view. I do understand working with parents who are always pushing the boundaries around awards and that it can be tricky to handle them. But the Webelos program does not have the den work in lockstep to complete all requirements/activity badges/awards together in the den, pack and summer camp. Scouts can work on them at home or other places unless restricted, like the archery and bb gun belt loops. Without evidence that the work was not done, there isn't a reason to deny the award except to perhaps prove a point that doesn't need to be made.

 

I'm a fan of saying 'yes' if possible, and in this case it does seem possible to say 'yes' to the Aquanaut activity badge.

[Venividi]

Sasha,

 

When dealing with a reasonable parent, I agree with you. When dealing with a difficult parent that is frequently stirring things up, I would want to put a stop to it. My view is based on my experiences with pushy parents.

Your experiences may well be different.

 

VV

[mdlscouting]

I'm very surprised that the YMCA is asking that much money to do aquanaut. At our local Y, they only asked the $3 visitors fee for any boys whose families are not Y Members.

 

There is no reason a Den Leader can't do that at a local pool, although if you have any access to a lifeguard from somewhere else, that would be a great idea.

[Sqyire21]

To Mom:

I agree with all of the other posts so far.

 

1) Aquanaut: There are numerous ways to earn the badge, and you can easily work with her to ensure her kids meet the written requirements.

 

2) BB Gun/Achery: She can talk to you, and if she's unhappy...I'd not only let her take it to council...I'd give her the phone number. This rule is clearly in black/white...and while there is a LOT of training which can be done outside of the BSA, the requirement still exsits.

My inital thought: What will this parent do when she gets her sons to Boy Scouts, and they don't get picked for OA, or their service project gets turned down. The BSA has some very hard/fast rules...and while parents can do ALOT to help their Scouts...it is ultimately up to the Scout to conform to the requirements of the BSA. This is part of Scouting...learning to follow the rules, and having the integrity not to bend/break the rules.

 

I could go on...but I've seen numerous Scouts in my time who tried to get away with things and get around rules. They ultimately lost something from the program, and only shorted themselves. In 4 years...these Scouts won't care how many belt loops they've earned.. In 40 years, they may well remember the time they weren't allowed to shape the rules to their own personal desires.

[Basementdweller]

Your under the illusion that council cares about Cub advancement......Boy scout advancement, the district advancement chair will get involved....

 

Mom will call make a big deal she will get some lip service, The DE if he is smart will not get involved.

 

they are really truly irrelevant except to the boys and their parents....

 

 

 

[Lisabob]

basement, it differs from place to place. In my location, you can't get your hands on the archery/bb beltloops unless you can show a certificate indicating that you earned them at a council-approved program. I guess it is possible that the current DE (who I don't know very well) would cave on this, but then they'd have to contend with an avalanche of other complaints from other similar parents - not to mention the complaints from the ticked off pack leaders who had just been undermined.

 

So if I were a DE, I guess I'd be politely sympathetic, but I wouldn't agree to hand out the award in violation of the very clear rules, and over the head of the pack leader, 'cause that's just asking for it.

[Twocubdad]

Unfortunately, there is a fairly good chance that she'll get some twit at council who says, "Oh sure, just have your den leader fill out the advancement report and bring it it. No one here really pays attention to where they earn the belt loops."

 

Don't kick the can down the road. Tell her to pound sand. Call the council. Call your congressman. You're not going to sign the paperwork.

 

I do, however, think the folks here have outlined some reasonable accommodation for Aquanaut. That you're reasonable where it's possible puts you in a better postion to take a stand with the other.

[Eagle92]

Base,

 

In regards to Cub Advancement, council are not getting caring b/c ti counts towards Journey to Excellence. Every time I'm at a commissioners' meeting and Cub advancement comes up, I constantly tell how inaccurate those stats are with my tale of buying the awards in one council and turning in the paperwork there, only to have my council send me the items I had already purchased, BUT has not been recorded in SCOUTNET.

 

Kinda shuts them up.

[Oak Tree]

In our council, you can just buy the archery and BB belt loops.

 

What I did with a similar situation was to ask the parent - "Do you believe your Scout has completed this requirement?"

 

I wouldn't cave. I'd just politely say "We pretty much try to award things to Scouts only when they complete the requirements." (Is that polite, or a little bit snarky? I do try to inject some humor even in tense situations.)

 

I'd also offer up "I don't make the requirements. You can read them yourself. I'm sure they have this rule because they don't want to encourage Cub Scouts to go work on this on their own." Don't even offer up a hint of an idea that it would be even possible for you to provide the belt loop.

 

I'm with VV - with reasonable parents you have discussions. With unreasonable parents you sometimes have to take a hard line.

 

I like SSScout's suggested dialogue as well.

[Ohanadad]

I love these parents who don't want to put in the time/do the work/go to camp/etc. yet want everything for their boys. Sometime, I feel like giving them the same talk I have to get my son, "You have a choice and choices have consequences. You need to understand what the are the consequences for each decision you make." Sadly, I think kids accept these things better than parents.

[BSA24]

I love this problem. I have a lot of experience with it.

 

1. She can take it up with whomever she likes. The Cubmaster has final authority on all badges awarded in the pack. If he says no, then no. The Cubmaster controls the pack meeting. He decides who gets awarded what ultimately. It's his job to maintain standards of youth recognition.

 

2. BSA will not overrule the cubmaster

 

3. The loops and pins for BB and Archery can only be earned at a district or council event. Period. You cannot earn them at a church archery range.

 

4. Aquanaut he can earn in a pool with his parents. Let him have it

 

5. Mom shouldn't even open her mouth about badges in a Webelos II den. The boy should bring you his book and tell you what he earned. He's supposed to be getting ready for Boy Scouts, not learning to ride in Mom's helicopter. Kick mom out of the conversation. Tell her to butt out. If she walks out, GOOD RIDDANCE!

 

 

[acco40]

Webelos II program? This must be a new level. I've have no knowledge of it.

 

Also, the Cubmaster has authority on all badges awarded in the pack? Again, this is a new one on me.

 

When a boy has done the requirements for an activity badge, the Webelos den leader or activity badge counselor, rather than a parent, approves most of the activity badges. It takes three activity badges, including Fitness and Citizen, to earn the Webelos badge.

 

Form 34403 (Advancement Report for Pack, Troop, Crew or Ship) requires a "leader" name - Packs have many leaders. In the pack my boys were members, a Pack Committee Member (the awards and advancement coordinator) took care of that role. No Cubmaster involvement or approval required.

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

Hew to the requirements. Archery and BB are beyond consideration based on the facts you've provided. But there's no sound reason to object to Aquanaut, and maybe that's the tip of an iceberg similar the one you mention in your observation: "Every year it's something different with her and her kids....this is only the tip of this years iceberg." Maybe that's what she's saying too.

[Brewmeister]

BSA 24, I'm not sure where you're coming from on your answer. The Cubmaster is the program guy but is not the gatekeeper for advancement or awards.

 

As it relates to the Webelos pins, just look at the book, it's all in there. All the other answers are making this way too hard or adding stuff that's not there.

 

Practically speaking I would go over mom's head and talk to the boy. In our den we always had special meeting dates or extra time before/after regular meetings to deal with Webelos pins earned at home, and the boys brought their books, not mom or dad.

 

Dealing with PITA parents is a sad fact of the job, but don't take it out on the boy just to show mom a thing or two. If he actually did the test he'll be able to tell you about it. "Yup, I swam the length of the pool, then we did lifesaving, etc etc." Who knows, he might have actually just taken the book and done it. Maybe not, but work with the boy--it's his award and not mom's.

(This message has been edited by brewmeister)