A Simpler, Kinder, Gentler Pinewood Derby

[SeattlePioneer 144]

I'm not a fan of the Pinewood Derby. It lends itself to an excessive amount of adult led competition.

 

However, we seems stuck with it.

 

In past years, we've used our district PWD as our event.

 

Unfortunately, this year they've let it slip to May and that doesn't work well for the pack.

 

I don't care to do all the PWD weighing, measuring and such.

 

I would prefrer to allow Cub Scouts to set up their own races themselves. In the past I've given Scouts certificates for the Raingutter Regatta and let Scouts decide who they want to race. The winner of each such match gets a star added to their certificate.

 

I'd consider doing that for the PWD. Add some competitions for the "coolest car" and whatever.

 

An overhyped PWD does not appeal to me. Who has ideas on simpler kind of PWD competitions?

[5yearscouter 52]

We make sure all weighs and measures are done the two weds before the race on friday, so if anything is wonky they have plenty of time to fix it.

 

we focus on cars weighing less than 5 oz,

and that they have enough clearance to actually go down the track.

 

we give them all the other rules for district derby, so that if they don't qualify for district, the district pwd chair can deal with them--but overall everyone is very careful about keeping things on the up and up.

 

we kind of force the really gung ho parents to make their OWN car. this is usually accomplished by the cubmaster or other person with a little carefully placed bragging about their car they made themselves with their own bare hands. next year adults can race just about anything as long as it weighs less than 5 lbs so it won't break the track. that will take the adult's minds off of their scout's cars.

 

 

we have pinewood derby car cut outs where the adults don't do anything, the kids use non-powered coping saws and sand paper and a wood rasp to make their cards.

 

we give out NO trophies. there are 1-4th certificates and pinewood derby patches.

 

the spreadsheet used for running cars is posted and everyone can see the numbers. the electronic brain tells us 1-4th in each lane, so there is no guesses as to who beat who.

 

we have everyone do the pinewood derby pledge ahead of time-- my car is wood, my wheels are vinyl, I'm here for fun, and the judge's decision is final.

 

 

[5yearscouter 52]

one way to make it more mellow is to hand out the car and a few tools/sharpies/paints and you make and race the car the same day at the park. no extra go home and polishing axels and such.

 

you can let the kids choose who to race by giving each scout x number of tickets.

they decide who they want to race and pay a ticket to race.

winner of the race gets a ticket, or 1st place gets 3 tickets, 2nd 2 and 3rd 1 ticket.

after a bit of time, or a certain number of races, sort kids by how many tickets they have. and look for fastest of each rank at that point.

then let them race each other til they run out of tickets.

 

[Old_OX_Eagle83 212]

This quandary is an old one, but a big one. Here are a few tips:

 

1. Have PWD workshops where the cars are actually built as a pack.

2. Add adult and open divisions to provide a better outlet for adult creativity.

3. Tighten the rules! No parts except what comes in the official kit.

4. Make sure every scout gets something, no one goes away empty handed.

5. Give awards of creativity, artistic expression, and anything else that works for your group.

*If you can have someone there with a laptop and printer make up awards to smooth out rough spots, like:

A. The 007 projectile wheel award

B. The road hog award (jumped lanes)

C. Green car award to award the fuel efficiency of a slow car

D. The roof top racer

*Keep a bag of goodies on had to go with the certificate

6. Make fun the clear goal, leave the seriousness outside adults who dont get this, can go home.

7. Dont let adults watch races from the same place the scouts do, scouts are rarely the problem.

8. Make your biggest deal, or biggest award, one of sportsmanship.

9. Consider not giving trophies, or special awards, to race winners everyone is a winner.

10. Make the whole event fun, no standing around and just staring at the race. Add other activities, simple fun stuff make it a carnival atmosphere. You can even theme the event Pinewood Derby, a Celebration of Sportsmanship.

These are just a few of the things Ive seen work well. As a commissioner you get to see the PWD done many creative ways 

 

[Eliza 11]

I like the ideas that have been posted. My son's favorite Pinewood Derby was a not too competitive one. Scouts had time to tune up their cars -- adults were on hand to add/take away (mostly add) weight, straighten alignment if wheels were really crooked, etc. Kids whose cars were ready could run them down the low tech wood track before entering them. The kids loved this! After the race was over, the kids had another chance to run their cars on the track -- kids loved having as many chances as possible to see their cars shoot down the track (without timing anything). Since each kid got to run his car multiple times, the focus moved away from the formal competition and was more on fun.

 

Siblings (mostly girls) were also allowed to race -- own races, not competing with Cub Scouts in the main race. It helped make the Derby feel like a fun family event.

 

Someone took a picture of each scout and his car and printed them on the spot with a mini photo printer. Again, focus on the scout and his car, not so much on win/lose.

 

I love the idea of a dads/parents race. And, for the little (Tigers, Wolves?) kids, I might think of certificates filled in on the spot -- best shark, best car that looks like food, etc. Even just holding up the cars and announcing (here's a hot dog made by ____, here's a Hershey bar, etc.) can be nice for the kids. If you have first, second and third place speed prizes for each den, don't just have one pack prize for best design. Find some way to recognize (not necessarily reward) the original cars that have been done by the boys themselves, even if the paint jobs are a bit drippy and the cars come in last!

 

Also, personally, I have found that repeated viewing of Down and Derby can makes an older kid want to make the car without asking for help.

[5yearscouter 52]

Let's see

add in that if you have a pushy loud mouth adult criticizing the track (we have a 20 year old wooden track thank you very much) we ask them to be in charge of doing the fundraiser to make the $ to buy a fancy metal track with new timer. They invariably shut up and take their grumbles elsewhere--or occassionally they offer to at least check the screws, sand the wooden track and repaint it to smooth it out.

 

if we have a pushy loud mouth adult complaining about who did or did not get graphited, they get to graphite all the cars as they are checked in so everyone gets the same attention. This worked out really great cause cars with unrolling wheels were fixed (from parent gluing the wheel to the side of the car accidently) and wheels turning in or out were also fixed, all by the same guy so they were all on the same even footing.

 

the parent sitting there critiquing the lane brain scores gets to sit there with a buddy as racing judge passing off scores to the person on the computer and they quickly learn that they have to pay attention rather than criticize.

 

the parents getting annoyed because their kid had to go to the derby early and didn't get dinner, get roped into ordering pizza and turning it into a den fundraiser for summer camp. It's now the Webelos 2's do it every year to make money, and the local pizza joint gives them a discount so the large pizzas costs only $5 each. they get family estimates on pizza they'll eat ahead of time, and order an extra pizza for the school custodians in case we run late.

 

the parents wanting something to do to keep the little ones busy get to pick out match box cars and help them run their own little race on the side with the derby practice tracks and hot wheels tracks. or run the cubanapolis 500 races.

 

we have everyone vote on certain attributes, not everyone gets a certificate, but everyone gets to vote--so car that looks the fastest, and car with best paint job and stuff like that.

we have extra blank certificates and a sharpie so cubmaster can give out the my dad broke my car award, and other similar things.

 

usually our trophy is a chocolate car for the winner of fastest of the pack, and chocolate tires for the other placements --usually enough chocolate tires everyone gets one (check the walmart or walgreens aisles for easter or other)

[momof2cubs 10]

We have tried everything we could think of in our pack to make this a fair event. And still almost invariably we have one or two cars that are so OBVIOUSLY made by dads that it's not even funny. It's unfair, it makes me mad as heck, and it discourages boys that work on their own from even trying.

 

We even had an elite race this year that was for dads only, so they could build their own cars and leave their son's cars alone. No dice.

 

I've grown to hate this event.

[Eagledad 2779]

Sadly the solutions aren't about encouraging and practice of proper behavior, but instead watering down the fun. If boys can't learn to control themselves during competitions in the pack, how do they learn for life?

 

I know its old school, but for me the BSA is in the business of developing character. We must demand proper behavior at all times.

 

If an adult (and unit leader) don't enjoy an activity of which most boys are excited for, that is a good time to delegate the responsibility. A pinewood derby can run without an incident like the one in the other discussion (the vast majority are). I know this because I've seen it done many many many times.

 

Barry

 

 

[Old_OX_Eagle83 212]

5year your PWD sounds like a lot of fun!

[SeattlePioneer 144]

>

 

 

 

Sorry, Eagle Dad, I don't agree.

 

Too many PWDs become excessively competetive, from what I see. They often aren't age appropriate for Tiger Cubsand Wolves, and perhaps Bears too.

 

And too often they bring about an excess of parent involvement that tends to spoil the event for Scouts.

 

Parent involvement --- you seem to never get it when you need it. And too often you get it when you don;t want it. At our Farther's Day Breakfast my aim is to give Scouts the chance to cook breakfast for their parents, especially flipping pancakes. Instead over and over I see parents taking the spatula away from their son to flip pancakes themselves.

 

And event that takes away the car from the boy so he can't "tamper" with it is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

 

My aim this year is to experiment with a simpler fomrat along the lines of some of those discussed here.

 

Our district PWD race is as formal as anyone could wish. Those who want that kind of race will be welcome to attend.

[JoeBob 606]

No winners?

No competition?

No trophies?

To avoid hurt feelings?

 

May as well see who can knit the biggest sweater.

 

Oops! Sorry. 'Biggest' implies there would be a winner...

[desertrat77 1144]

Like my old first sergeant used to say: What you tolerate, will happen.

 

Acceptable parent behavior should be clearly outlined well ahead of time. I'm talking measurable standards. And there should be swift, visible consequences for crossing the line.

 

Disqualify a cub or two because of their parents, send the cub and mom/dad home, and things will settle down pretty quick.

 

Yes, it's draconian. But what are the alternatives?

 

- Chaos because of poor adult behavior? Just to avoid conflict with the offending adult donkeys? Okay. Then it's a lousy event for every one.

- Dumb it down to a non-competitive "rainbow and unicorn" event? Again, just to avoid conflict? Sure. Another lousy, unsatisfying event.

 

We can have enthusiastic, competitive events that are lots of fun...folks just have to know the rules.

 

The most desirable outcome when addressing misbehavior in a group setting is precision bombing, ie, target the offender and punish them. Carpet bombing everyone (dumbing down the event, or cancelling it) punishes everyone.

 

Joe Bob is right. If we can't make a stand for good decorum, and give the cubs a fun event, may as well head to Knitting World and hit that two for one sale before Granny catches all the bargain yarn.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[Scoutfish 16]

 

 

That is when you step and and tell...NOT ASK... the parents to step back.

 

This is your deal. You are running the event. If parents have a problem with that, they are welcome to hold their son back somewhere else.

In the end, it is all for the boys. Letting mom and dad do it or letting things control what you do makes the whole point moot.

 

Toss out offending p[arenst who do not follow the rule or the program. Yeah, they will holer and fuss, but everybody else will be happy about it in the long run.

 

 

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Hello Scoutfish,

 

 

One of my great pleasures is giving Scouts the opportunity to flip their first pancake ever. Usally I find you can depend on that happening a several times while doing a Cub Scout breakfast.

 

But starting a conflict with parents who are probably convinced they are doing the right thing, and perhaps are having a good experience doing it just doesn't seem worthwhile.

 

I try to make a point of my expectations, but perhaps people just don't get the word, think their way is the right way or whatever.

 

It's a disappointment to me, and perhaps some Cub Scouts lose out on the experience at that moment. On the bright side, I'm avoiding the drama of a newspaper story "Cubmaster Wrestles Parent Over Spatula At Cub Scout Campout!"

 

 

[Eagle007 10]

Desertrat77, I couldn't agree more. When I assisted my son with his PWD car, I did just that - assisted. He made the car. I offered advice and moral support. He wanted to hedge on certain parts of the project like cutting out the form of the car and sanding it. But I told him that this was his car not mine and that he would get more out of it if he were to build it and not me. He did and had the pleasure of saying "I made that."

 

In reference to the adults acting like spoiled brats and ruining the event for everyone, I say this. Send out a list of rules for the event (local, district, etc) ahead of time to all scouts, scouters AND parents. Include consequences for rule violations (disorderly conduct or disruptive parent) stating that the participant will be eliminated from competition and the person/people causing a problem will be asked to leave the event. Also state that judges, like referees, have the final say; arguing with them will get you tossed out just like at a game. If you aren't willing to abide by the rules and allow the boys to have fun then stay at home. It's really simple.